Moving the discussion started in http://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/pimax-8k-m1-issues-leak/7001/401?u=lillo , to avoid being off topic and annoy uninterested users, and since this thread opened by Heliosurge was intended for the sole purpose of back his “supposed” claims against me…
I’ll set it straight this time, because this thread of yours has become a real funpark fairground, just for the sole purpose to try to contest my argumentations with tons of stupid links and articles that have very little for explaining what you claimed to dispute in my discussions, many of which are full of inaccuracies, hype, or just junk written by people without real knowledge of the topic.
Most of all, you accused me of not give any evidence supporting my claims, good…but you have not given it to us for your claims neither, and linked a bunch of hype material and links that in your fantasies should support your claims above (In your own words you admitted that some, like nanoled, you’re just calling it this way just for convenience, and used the word "SHOULD" , hence you’re only speculating).
IJARCCE Journal 5-11-2016
This comes from a respectable source intended for researchers, STUDY it carefully, as it is a white paper containing brief but precise and detailed technical information on OLED tech, not junk from gaming/computer magazines and speculations by young geeks…
I’ll do some quick quote from it for you and the many lazy readers here:
PAGE 155 Chapter VIII Step 5: “OLED response times are 1000 times faster than LCD providing 10 microseconds response time.”
Not sure what you’re referring to with that “LG still has a lot of work to do”… but both LG and Sony have already overcome most of that technology problems, notice that in the document I linked, it is stated that one of the most common problem with oleds is life expectancy, rated around 30.000 hours back in 2014, is today almost double that amount, that translates in approximately 5-6 YEARS expected longevity on a continuous 24h cycle (Never turned off).
Thanks @MReis , a really valid study. (Tough I’m not sure your intentions were for the real benefit of people’s understanding…since you admittedly love flaming, but at least, you’re one of the few who seems to have understood a bit, and tried to elaborate in the right direction) I was familiar about studies like that one, and talked about it a little in my past interventions in this forum. Even that I already did two past threads to hint at some aspects of it, as we have seen, almost NO ONE has read or even try to understand, even that….some like this moderator and other Naysayers take the liberty to comment and deny out of everything, without any technical and precise counter argumentation to the points I made, but just bullying out with rude attitude, or just by keep posting junk, pretending it is supporting their claims, when in fact is just fantasy or arrogance (and even have the hypocrisy to say at the start of a thread “leave your ego out” , wow….of course I’m the big ego guy here…okay…
Even tough the above linked study is not properly focused on measuring response times related to the gaming side, but only the effort to obtain a certain range and type of visual stimulation using commercial LCD technology, for the assessment of psychological effects, mostly using specific white-black strobe screens and effects that were previously done using CRT screens, it is using exactly the same method and equipment that I’m familiar with for photodiode measurement , and they rate it at around 7/7,5 ms on some of the best gaming LCD (medium values, and, for the lazy readers and not so much tech savvy people, since the paper is somewhat heavy and not intended for beginners …there are even the oscilloscope measurement graph tables showing these values) that’s almost the same amount I personally measured, but keep in mind that these values are GREY-TO-GREY transitions (I.e. from a black pixel to full white), and when real world application screens are used, with fast changing multiple color images like in gaming, these values could easily go up to as much as 16ms , which translate into a 60 to 75 Hz possibility (give a few more, if overdriven/overclocked panels are used, and software to bypass all the limiting factors, are used…like in their tests).
Notice that they are using special written software for the test measurement, probably running on Linux systems or a very basic OS, bypassing everything possible to avoid the interference of the many interfering factors both sw and hw side (exactly what I said in a reply to JeoffVader).
The rest is done using G-Sync technology to “push” the frames from the graphic card framebuffers (dual) as fast as possible to the “144 Hz” monitor, but it doesn’t mean all the frames will be shown in full by that monitor, frame loss/merging is most likely possible and some flickering/tearing will result even with G-Sync (I’m talking about a gaming scenario….not the test they are doing in that document, that is just a type of very simple and quick image strobing), and the 1000Hz control camera will catch even the slightest frame miss or anomaly, providing it is a professional shutter with no filters activated.
This and more already mentioned factors in my past interventions are just SOME of the reasons why I say TRUE 1 ms on LCD is just a myth, or just partial truth because it applies only in some precise circumstances, not everyday performance, if you have some valid counter-argumentation @Heliosurge, then post and reply in a coherent point-by-point way, and with your knowledge from your mouth, please avoid posting other junk links taken from computer magazines, Wikipedia (that is well known to be totally sponsored and unaffordable) as it serves nothing but to show you’re not having such knowledge, but just looking for something on google that barely resemble a clue to yourself…and anyway we have been already submerged with all your links coming from the most funny places.
And, if it’s not enough for you…even that article YOU linked here: http://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/pimax-8k-m1-issues-leak/7001/397?u=lillo (https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/144hz-monitors-refresh-rate-motion-blur-explained-29481805) plus in this same thread, to supposedly contradict what I say….just confirms all my points, I’ll quote the related text here, FOR EVERYONE TO SEE, because you have shown incapacity of reasoning, or just negligence or not reading things at all.
Quotes from the trustedreviews.com article YOU linked:
- “OLED displays, on the other hand, are purely electronic, making them several orders of magnitude faster – a typical OLED panel has a response time of just 0.01ms.”
- “Something to keep in mind when looking at monitor response times is there isn’t an accepted standard of measurement. It’s generally measured by a figure called grey-to-grey time, which refers to the time it takes for a pixel to transition from grey to white and back again, rather than all the way from black to white to black, which takes longer.”
- “As such, you can sometimes end up with situations where the monitor may say it has a 4ms response time, for instance, but it can look far slower than that.”
And you used that article to confute my points, when in fact it was EXACTLY what I was saying ?!?!?!?
Dude….seriously….are you mad or what ???? And I should be pointed the big ego guy here ?….
You just failed big time, my friend.
I’ll try to explain in brief what I think you are referring to, with your speculations regarding these two technologies, since you don’t have showed us anything that is exactly as you stated, only vaguely similar or even contradictory.
Microled: This is an already marketed technology by Samsung for improving the wall screen panels, they are modular panels that make it possible to assemble a range of large to giant panels, like the ones used in music concerts, sports events and wall displays….this is just an improvement and miniaturization of the big led elements used in these modular panels that until now had very big pixel diodes, in fact when you go really close to these giant screens the image becomes very grainy and you easily see the individual diodes, but at some meters distance they look very good. The micro led implementation has just made possible to reduce pixel size to almost an invisible size, thus permitting very high resolutions, huge luminance, 8K and above class screens ideal to substitute cinema curtains for projection. But these have nothing to do with computer, Tv, or phone screens, it’s intended for big displays.
I even cited this technology well before you added it to your quote here, proof: ( http://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/pimax-8k-m1-issues-leak/7001/297 ) but of course you don’t read anything, pretend to forget, or just made it your own…great example of intelligence and integrity indeed…
Nanoled: What you are referring to here are probably just the upcoming OLED displays that have a miniaturized new type of pixel matrix to the nanometer scale, like the VR screens recently showed by LG/Google and others, these solve most of the problems that currently plague the adoption of this technology in VR because of the pixel matrix not being small and dense enough, solving one of the few remaining problems, and leading to a sure and definitive adoption of these panels in VR, that will have no screen door effect anymore, because of the very dense pixel matrix obtainable, up to 1500 Dpi and over, plus some other improvements, like better heat dissipation, even better response times, less power draw, etc….
Other than that, it has NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING to do with Qled and Samsung…. that is in itself a confusing way to call and brand them.
The only possible thing you could possibly cite about Qled (but haven’t done it…neverthless) is what Sony is currently researching, using a red, green and white Oled pixel matrix coupled with a blue Qled pixel, because the blue Oled are still suffering from shorter life expectancy than the other colors, but I don’t think this will ever come out as a commercial solution, because….who really cares about panels lasting more than 8-10 years of medium use operation time ??? In 10 years we will be having almost Star Trek tech available…
Done, happy now ? Even that I seriously doubt you will take the time to read the above material and make discernment out of it…
Plus, you’ve showed to have the tendency to show up and open mouth every time a subject is discussed, even when you have no proficiency or knowledge at all, looks you just want to make your omnipresence in the forum constantly being felt…fine…as long as you think this is your “personal” forum where Pimax could just announce their products…so much about ego related allusions from you…
I want to remember you what the definition of a MODERATOR is…. Simply moderating the discussions and assure they go on in a smooth way, NOT constantly say what you think about anything and steering the course of it to make your own views/convictions appear cool…. Something you showed not to do at all, since you even engaged in a flame with me TWO times and rushed seeking for other users support to back and strength your claims, and just keeping giving neverending “likes” (often even to posts that hint at your own contradictions), please do me a favor, never give me any “like” again as I don’t care at all being liked or not, either in general and from an individual like you.
You don’t even intervened all the times when the reaction to something I posted was offensive and bullying, where that you as moderator should have done it, but as it is commonly said…he who stays silent agrees… Fine…. Obviously in your views the “Golden Rule” mentioned by @George doesn’t applies to me and people who say something you don’t like….
And now that I showed you the proofs you so much asked, from serious, affordable, undisputed sources, let me say you that I think that what are you doing here….regarding this ongoing subject and dispute about panel tech, is just spreading myths and inaccurate informations, and that this is only damaging to both the forum and the community and you have the responsibility, as a Moderator, for what you put out, because inexperienced people or just hype gamer geeks will adopt this inaccurate information.
If it was about minor things like announcing some new Nvidia card, some speculated future tech or other fun subjects, it would have been okay and fun to point out and just hype about… but since what we’re talking is way more deep of a technical discussion who has wide implications (way more than most of you here think…) and that you’re pretending to talk it from a level you DON’T have, this is just bad from a moderator, or just very irresponsible.
And since you had resorted to suspend my forum account in the last 4 days, just to silence me, and even deleted the post where I made personal attacks to you (evidently it was too much embarrassing for your stung pride) in the “Pimax 8K M1 Issues leak” thread….let me say here that, just like @MarcoBalletta said once, you have to permanently ban me from here, if you want to silent me because I will never stop from pointing what I know is the truth and exposing the bullshit some say, when I see it.
And to anyone who have taken the habit to call me a trolling guy, I’ll just say one simple thing: “How many subjects you can number being part of my “supposed” trolling in this forum ??? ONE AND ONLY ONE….” , because I’ll never stick my nose in subjects I don’t know a shit about, or don’t have interest about, unlike some others here….but call me a troll if you like, and if it is trolling only on the bullshit some like to spread, then yes….I could very well be that type of troll, to your eyes only.
Good continuation and moderation, hopefully with a more discerning attitude and responsibility…