Calm and civil discorse about update 31-07


Yep every hmd brand needs its own solution. Its tricky… so tricky to the point HTC themselves somewhat failed :wink:


HTC have R&D? I thought they were just expensive brick layers :smiley:
Steam/Valve on the other hand should have done something by now.

I watched the below video on how the older ATW worked and the guy does a great job describing it in layman terms.

It makes you respect the engineers trying to develop BrainWarp for the Pimax 8K. I’m glad they have partnered up somehow with GPU Manufacturers as this stuff is top end complicated but at least they have others to reverse engineer, the Chinese are very good at that.


Yeah hehe, I guess I mean Valve :slight_smile:
Thanks for the vid, haven’t seen that one!


Screw laymen terms. I hate it when I watch someone explain interesting technical stuff and explains it as if a donkey needs to understand it. I want to learn what the experts do and how they do it and how they speak about it. If you’re interested in high tech, you better prepare to learn something instead of having things analogued to crayons and balloons


That lies the problem. Folks that have sn interest sometimes needs an easy explanation/metaphor before diving into higher info.


Yep. That’s why the Dummy books and their clones (O’Reilly Head First) are so popular. Read them first, then get the really technical reference books.


Nah, it’s also tutorials and such. If your topic is high level stuff, it shouldn’t be explained together with level 0 stuff. Wanna learn programming? Don’t start telling me about what a keyboard is, assume people know some stuff and if they didn’t know keyboard level stuff, let them bump their heads at your tutorial and decide they need to learn basics first.
I have limited time and all these happy youtubers touching interesting things while taking all their time to accomodate for complete beginners is wasting so much of it.



No. The M2 hasnt even been tested by the beta group so It makes no sence why production is under way


Business partners that have previewed m1 as xunshu said are ready to take m2; but backers will have opportunity if testing girs well to decide if they would like m2 with siftwsre nit complete.


I read in that answer: The M2 is maybe not the last hardware iteration. I think what some of the people really want to know here (and of course me to):

If I choose to “get the HMD as soon as possible, even when the software is not finished”, does that mean the hardware can change too and I have the worse HMD in the end just because i was unpatient. Or will the software be updated and in the end every backer has the same headset.

Why do I ask this? Because in my opinion the answers are contradictory, if (and only if) the headset meant when writing this is the M2:

I want the headset as soon as possible if it can be updated by a software update later.
I don’t want the headset soon if it will be inferior to headsets sent out later and it can’t be updated at my home.

This feels like a gamble… @xunshu Could you please make this clearer? That would be very nice.


Your question has been answered and clarified several times.

The hardware known as M2 is currently being mass-produced and shipped to the Beta Testers. Once they have gotten and evaluated the hardware one of two things will happen:

  1. The M2 hardware will get “green-lit” by the Beta Testers and produced for shipment to both backers and Business clients that are prepared to accept the hardware now while the software is finalized.


  1. The M2 hardware does not get approval from the Beta Testers. Design changes are made - thus creating an M3 unit for testing. All produced M2 units are distributed to Business Clients and internal use only. M3 is produced on production line, shipped to Beta Testers, rinse and repeat.

As Pimax is not staffed by clairvoyants, the best answer that they can provide at this time is that they must await feedback from the Beta Testers. Note that nowhere does the scenario present that a Backer will be getting an M2 - without sign-off - that will later require recall or be “inferior” to the headsets sent to those backers that choose to be patient and wait for the software to be complete.

At very least, Pimax is stating that the hardware is now rolling down the production line, the only difference is whee they direct the output of the production efforts. By starting the production now, while they have a headsetthat their business client has already deemed "good enough’, they have the ability to test and refine their process - as well as ramp up production capacity (230 -> 700->2000) safe in the knowledge that their efforts are not in vain. It’s actually quite efficient and shrewd - since they get the business clients to “pay the freight” for spool-up and can therefore be able to cover all backers in a single batch if M2 goes sideways with the testers - and the Business Clients are paying for the privelage - very tidy.

Hope this helps clear things up for you.


Which bit of the obvious meanings did you not understand?

1 If the M2 is the finished article it will be shipped if not it won’t

2 The only difference that an early HMD reciever is in the software.


Simply put if the m2 performs well its complete; hence why “Let’s see how it performs first.”


A hint that it exists? IIRC Pimax said it wasn’t in the M1s when they shipped.

Pimax have never said, that I’m aware of, that they have had brainwarp operational in any hmd ever.

I’m particularly interested in neurological and neuropsychological side effects on the human from this. I can’t help but think we know that playing around with tricking our neurological system with things like certain frequencies of strobing and light spectrum can have some pretty severe side effects like seizures, or maybe less severe like altering our mood or susceptibility to certain stimuli etc.

It’s funny that we want our drugs tested on others first and a reassurance that they’re relatively safe. Yet we think it’s fun to try new non drug ways to alter our physiology and don’t think for a second that it may go wrong on some people.

I’m very interested in brainwarp…other people’s experiences of brainwarp that is.


Something to consider is we have something kinda but not really necessarily the same.

Consider both Passive 3d glasses & Active shutter 3d glasses.


Yeah it’s not just Pimax I’m talking about here. Heaps of companies and most people are happy to play around with tricking their neurological systems and never think it will go bad.

Now I’ve developed a pill, which I believe should alter your brain functioning to the point 45 fps games will look like 90 fps games. Your brain won’t know the difference. Would you like to be the first one to try this amazing new medicine?

People are funny.


Do you mean at 5K input (gpu render) the resulting image quality is better with the pimax 5K (native 5K res) than with the hardware upscaled image of the pimax 8K ?

Also my understanding is 6K input (gpu render) is the point at which the image quality of the pimax8K “begins” to become better than the pimax 5K (with native 5K input res), right ?

And optimal result with the pimax 8K would be achieved with a 8K input (gpu render), but then this is the same input requirement than the 8KX. In the eventuality you would have a gpu capable of rendering with good framerate at 8K why would you then use a pimax 8K which downsample at 5K in the middle instead of using a 8KX which would suffer no loss as there is no downscale in the middle ?

The only interest of the pimax 8K with its hardware scaler is then to be able to use between 6K and 8K input (gpu render) to offload gpu compared to 8KX requirement, as with the 8KX such an input res (= everything not 8K) should look worse as this is not scaled to the display native res.

But my concern is you seem to say the 8K image quality with an input of 5K is worst than the same input displayed by the pimax 5K. It was not the initial plan than the 8K would require at least a 6K input to perform better than the pimax 5K. I expected that with 5K input the pimax 8K would at least benefit from less SDE compared to the pimax 5K, with image detail level being on par with the pimax 5K (same input res = same detail level). You seem to say the hardware upscale in the pimax 8K doesn’t perform good enough from 5K to 6K input to provide a better final image than the native 5K of the pimax 5K.


Depends on the type & quality of possible side effects. Lol

But the point of similarity is Active Shudder 3d glasses does the effect BW description.


You did not watch the video did you?

When I said it was in layman terms, I was referring to the understanding of Carmack’s ATW technology. If you think you stand a chance understanding him on an equal level without your head exploding then great, many companies out there would employ you in a second, including Pimax, Microsoft, Valve, Sony etc. However based on your little rant here I would keep those crayons on standby and go watch the video, you might learn something.


I did watch the video. And that rant was about layman terms in general. Nobody who can’t understand technical terms has any business being explained, in detailed depth, how these things work.

Anyway, I’m happy you liked the video and could understand it.