Demostrating Pimax 8k has real RGB subpixels with an 4k panel resolution. And explaining the source of its image problems


#142

That’s what SweViver already did. The problem is that the images are difficult to take, due to variations, such as timing the photo to the refresh rate (since there’s no way to use “genlock” on a VR headset).


#143

I think a microscope is needed? I assume an un-powered panel will still show RGB leds with a light source pointing at them, not sure the under light on a microscope would help though as panels have an opaque back. Would also need a camera attachment.

Maybe even an Endoscope would work then you don’t need to remove the panel but not sure on the macro capability.


#144

An endoscope wouldn’t work, but something like this https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/c5KPA2RQ would do the trick.


#145

Incidentally, I was looking at this microscope at Amazon and it seems it does not have proper magnification settings, but rather different magnification at different focus. Which could make it difficult to use, if you cannot get it close enough to the panels (as I understood there is a protective glass, between the panel and the lenses, which could be difficult to remove).


#146

I have that exact microscope and yes you’re right about the magnification/focus.
I took a pic of my Huawei p20pro display with it and the microscope had to be about 2cm away, not sure about the magnification level though.
It seems that the panel used in this phone is something something OLED something. :spy:

In case youre wondering, it’s a part of “X” in xunshu’s icon :blush:


MRTV: Project Cars 2 On Pimax 5K Plus / 8K / Vive Pro On GTX 1080ti
#147

They didn’t seem to have any issues recording a 4K TV screen in this video
How a TV Works in Slow Motion - The Slow Mo Guys

They were just showing a still white image on screen to clearly display the pixels and they didn’t seem to be taking any special precautions.


#148

Not sure if that same camera and lens could capture a micro LCD panel in a VR headset which is much much smaller, limited distance to the panel too so it would have to focus from 2 or 3 cm away.


#149

In case the 8k-X will use the same Panel :slight_smile:


#150

I believe the first 100 headset backers definitely all have their emails by now as I am 109 and received mine the second day after the emails started. When you receive your email you will have the choice to switch at that point.


#151

http://forum.pimaxvr.com/uploads/default/original/2X/a/aff564e979a8b3bbc0c4abbc37854de27d6bb638.png
edit: 8kpanel on the left, 4k on the right

this is horrible! i cant go from my 4k to a panel with half the pixels, the SDE is gonna kill me!
i get that this is still an upgrade over a vive pro, but this is a segnificant downgrade for a 4k and i cant accept that.
i will wait for the 8k+ with real rgb 2x4k panels, thank you very much.


#152

You have to remember that there are 2 screens, 1 for each eye you touch more pixels per eye although the pictures can not show it. Each eye will see a few pixels and the brain will join the two. But if waiting for 8k + or 8kx is always a good idea.


#153

SDE wise the way the sub pixels are laid out as if they were a 4k pattern make it so it only looks twice as bad when you have a solid colour that shuts one of the subpixels down completely. (No red/blue or no green). In a real scene you would rarely see that across the whole page but you might well notice it in specific places. On a white or near white area the SDE would b e comparable to the 4k but with a very subtle colour fringing at edges.

At any rate people say it’s virtually invisible on the 8k unless you look for it so I doubt you would find it much of an issue. The clarity however… that would probably annoy you.


#154

Can you link me to the comparisons between the 4k and 8k, (In English). thanks!


#155

#156

I counted pixels to see what % more pixels the 8K has than the 5K+. For the same size box 5K+ has 117x117 = 13,689 pixels, 8K has 165x170 = 28,050 pixels.

1440p (2560x1440) = 3,686,400
4K (3840x2160) = 8,294,400
8,294,400 / 3.686,400 = 2.25

5K+ (117*117) = 13,689
8K (165x170) = 28,050
28,050 / 13,689 = 2.049

4K resolution has 225% pixels compared to 1440p. In the case of Pimax the 8K only has 205% pixels.

It’s surprising to me that the vertical and horizontal pixels counts come out to different values on the 8K, but I double and triple checked my counts. I believe the distortion profile is stretching the pixels slightly along the horizontal axis (about 10%), for reasons I don’t understand.

Note: this doesn’t tell us the total pixels visible through the lens, but it does tell us overall the % difference in visible pixels between the two units.

Edit - Just remembered that I need to cut the pixel count in half for one axis on the 8K since half of the pixel spaces I counted are just filled with 2/3 sub pixels. So…

170/2 = 85
8K (165x85) = 14,025
14,025 / 13,689 = 1.024

8K has 102.4% pixels of the 5K+. That’s just 2.4% more, and less resolution along one of the axis.

This is sort of depressing.


#157

you absolute legendary maniac.

also how does 8k even have less sde with only 2 percent more resolution.


#158

The 4K uses 1 panel and the 8K uses 2 panels?
There is some overlap which could mean there is higher pixeldensity in the overlapping FOV?

Me <-- technoob. I’ll show myself out…


#159

what i dont understand is how the panel manufacturer got away with calling a single green sub-pixel a full pixel. i mean wtf?
its called sub-pixel for a reason, that thing is useless until you pair it with red and blue.
if you count full pixels(rgb) the 8k has like 2x2k panels…


#160
  1. SDE is only loosely related to the number of pixels. SDE is caused by the unlit borders around the pixels.
  2. As far as SDE is concerned, it’s incorrect to divide the number of pixels in half for the 8K.

I’ve studied SweViver’s images and, to me, it looks like the 8K has 3840x2160 individually addressable pixels. For SDE, it doesn’t matter that a pixel is G or RB.

IMO, the biggest issue with the 8K’s screen isn’t that the pixels aren’t full RGB and isn’t even (really) that the image is up-scaled. The biggest issue is the poor quality of the up-scale. Pixels are being “lost”, either because the panel is spreading pixel RGB values into the pixel’s neighbors (as an attempt to display colors more faithfully) or there’s a bug somewhere which is causing a poor image (worse than the 5K+) to be sent to the 8K.


#161

Everyone starts as a tech noob man. No worries lol