Eyestrain discussion / Problems and Solutions

issue
events

#786

Just because YOU are certain, does not make it true. :slight_smile:

There are clearly issues related to eyestrain, but without proper investigation, the “root cause” (or causes) cannot be determined.

I can verify that eyestrain is an issue with my 8K, but for ME, it only happens when my hard or soft IPD is not set correctly. I can play for hours with no eyestrain, when my headset IPD is set properly.


#787

Ok so I came from my measured ipd 66,5mm which was unbearable to 65,5mm which was better yet not perfect to 65mm which seems to be quite close, just a little bit of eyesore after an hour of gaming.
I’m going to adjust it by the 0,1mm steps tomorrow both hardware and software.

Just if anyone is interested.

Edit also I’m not sure if the asymmetry plays a big role here, it’d be just a matter of placing the headset a bit more to the left or right.
I set it like that I can see the equal amount of edge distortion with both eyes.
@Heliosurge


#788

Have you tried to space the tests with few drinking days? IIRC the last time it basically solved all your problems (with Pimax) :smiley:


#789

Actually I had the ipd dialed in already, but with all this eyestrain talk and the new software setting I though I’d test if the myth of “set the real measured ipd - fine tune with the software ipd” is true.
No beverages needed this time. :beers:


#790

Actually drinking helps a lot with Pimax to have less eyestrain!

Maybe our dear Pimax should include some “Baijiu” bottles into the box!?


#791

Wow “100% certain…” Assumes you are the undisputed absolute authority on this issue. That seems more than a little presumptuous to me

I can only speak from assisting people setup their headsets and try to achieve the best experience possible. I think the issue has a life of it’s own now but honestly my own experience with this is strain is uncommon. Lengthy sessions with lots of people.

We will absorb advice and continue to improve the options in future releases.


#792

The biggest problem is that were not dealing with standard Gen1 headsets. Causes can be a wide range of different issues. So have to use a scientific method to eliminate & solve in steps.

The real truth with this headset being new territory in the consumer space. Folks are using a wide fov for a lot longer than previous IMAX experiences with og StarVR. So issues like the eyestrain being observed are likely a wide range of factors causing it in different individuals.

Binoculars for example just about anyone can use them.

We are still involved in optic trickery to create a believable illusion only at a more complex level. Gen1 headsets have 100% Binocular overlap; where as Wide FoV does not. Some eyestrain maybe caused by this for example as the area outside the overlap has less picture density due to this.

I am not as said saying Asymetry is the root cause. But a cause for some that are experiencing as we have clear evidence of this.

The same is true of vr sickness; while pimax may have “solved” it for large wide audience; it surely will not solve it for all users. Motion sickness is quite complex.


#793

It’s no myth just not going to work for all as each case may have a different factors. Even the properties of the backlighting & flicker rate may cause some eyestrain. Or some may need Lightfield display for wide fov.


#794

Exactly and that is why solutions are not general or simple.

For example I see many playing on 72Hz or even 60Hz without problems. I tried 72Hz few times and could not bear it for long even if FPS was there. When I switch to 90Hz I have no problem even if low FPS.

Ultimately it is in the brain, what it accepts and what not. Even wrong IPD our brain would have no problem processing if it was used to it/accepted it.


#795

Indeed. The current pitool beta is a success as it has reduced the number in the eyestrain camp; meaning they have solved it for some. They need encouragement with their successes. There not done yet in another release or 2 more may have a solution implemented that reduces this number further.


#796

Too much assymetric IPD may cause some degree of eyestrain in any VR hmd on the market unless a new model allows physical per eye IPD adjustment.

However, most of us know this is not the case with Pimax. So many people with almost perfect sysmtrical IPD also report eyestrain issues…

Why I said %100, is a fact from my experience as an owner of various VR hmds like Rift, PSVR, Lenovo, Go, Samsung Gear VR. No matter what I do with my Pimax 5k+ even with latest beta drivers as someone with symetric IPD, eyestrain does not go away and this is not about horizontal or vertical alignment of wearing this hmd, bacause I have tons of different facepads, and did already my best to accommodate Pimax for my headshape. After all I spent my last 5 years dealing with all those various VR hmds mentioned and more than 20 different google cardboard hmds that I still keep as souvenir.

Rather that correcting this issue at later iteration (that is another MUST of course as you accepted), as someone who supported Pimax in 2017, I would like this company to offer a honest, decent, scientific solution for all of us who helped them, trusted them, and supported them with millions of $$$.

There must be a better way out of this thing rather than putting the blame on consumers and pledgers side as they are not ignorant at all when it comes to VR.


#797

“When I switch to 90Hz I have no problem even if low FPS”

???


#798

No one is putting blame on consumers as no one has control of biology & physiology differences. We have yet to delve into eugenics. And to be honest that is perhaps a scary idea.

We can’t expect drastic hardware changes. At this stage we need to have faith that they can come up with Non invasive solutions via software.

Often when trying to identify root cause(s) what we suspect is the root cause ends up being incorrect.

Please don’t confuse that to be a statement that what you believe is wrong as it hasn’t been proven or disproven. It simply means more study is needed; we are in new territory.

I myself will experiment with the new settings to see if I can induce eyestrain.


#799

Put it to min or max I guarantee you will have problems, if not it’s even more alarming.


#800

Who is ‘‘we’’? Pimax? Or us, the consumer?

I am the user, who paid lots of hard earned $ for this project, and I want to believe this is “we”.

Again I have to say the problem is neither biology nor physiology. Its is a design issue… As a consumer, I have the right to resist against any opposite claim especially if it comes from questionable sources!

Anyways, I still believe Pimax need to address this fact for kickstarter pledgers with a work around. If not this will be their lost.


#801

I think he is referring to us, the consumers.

Yes, a proper set up app would be appreciated.


#802

“I think he is referring to us, the consumers.”

That’s ofcourse what it should be, but I don’t feel it…

“Yes, a proper set up app would be appreciated.”

Yes, they already offered software IPD slider as we begged for so long, thanks a lot Pimax! But there are some limitations of software solutions when you have deep hardware bottlenecks.


#803

The software ipd slider is not a helper app, I’m talking about step by step visual guide to tune in the best picture, like Microsofts
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisci elit, sed eiusmod tempor incidunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequat. Quis aute iure reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint obcaecat cupiditat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum tool.


#804

We as in Backers & consumers.

If it was purely design then the headset wouldn’t work for the majority that it does. Biological differences vs design is key. What makes 2 people that are similar have differing experiences? Your making conclusions based on your belief & experiences.

Root causes are often hard to nail. This is why there are so many methodes used to evaluate.

By questionable sources do you mean fellow backers & pre orders whom are not experiencing eyestrain?


#805

It would be a step forward if Pimax removed the ipd value in millimeters and replace it with just ± someunit values. Could clear some confusion, since I can testify that if I select my real ipd value in the headset it just doesnt work, it’s atleast 1,5mm off and that’s contradictory.
Tag @PimaxUSA @Sean.Huang suggestion