HP Reverb now or wait for Pimax 8K X

review

#183

My 4K monitor is a fairly early one. It has 2 60Hz ports and 2 30Hz ports. It’s shared between PCs, so my work laptop is relegated to 30 Hz, where it doesn’t really matter. What refresh rate do you really need, just to update the mouse cursor? :laughing:

But we’ve drifted off topic (yet again). :beers:

My current plan is to use my 8K for several years and then get an 8KX, unless something even better comes along. I’ll probably upgrade my GPU at least once, before I buy another VR headset.


#184

heh I would have said the same thing until I did some photoshop work on my home pc (with gaming monitor). Turns out it makes a huge difference to productivity tasks - you can work a lot faster and more accurately with a high refresh rate on the mouse cursor. Try it if you get a chance.

We are now all 144hz IPS 1440p screens at my work for this reason!


#185

That’s certainly true for some tasks.

My main PC is on a 4K @ 60Hz Display Port. That’s the machine I use for gaming, photo and video editing.

My work PC just needs to be able to update as fast as I can type C++ code and emails; there’s a relatively small amount of mousing.


#186

I have a Reverb and strongly suggest not buying it now. The current batch has serious design problem as much reported on reddit: flickering, black screen, random disconnect, etc.


#187

I’ve read a lot of curious theories, but I suppose it’s easier. Valve doesn’t want to sell the Lighthouses to people who are planning to use them with a different driver than what Valve supposes should be used. If Pimax had followed the standard at 100% I doubt Valve would be unhappy. I understand the mutual suspicion, Pimax wanted to protect herself by walking alone, Valve wanted to protect the technology they worked on so hard.

Who says that Valve doesn’t want competitors forgets that Valve sells games, not headsets. Billions against millions. Valve doesn’t want alternative ecosystems, a competing headset that purchases mainly on Steam is not a competing headset


#188

That argument could be valid if Pimax was selling a lot more HMDs. Currently Pimax users certainly has unsignificant weight in steam game sales.


#189

Obduction in VR mode given away from GoG uses SteamVR. Plus you can add non Steam purchased content to Steam. Valve does sell headsets (Index) & previously Sponsored official headsets co developed HTC Vives & the Unreleased LG Ultragear. They were also trying to sell SteamVR Hmd Dev kits.


#190

the argument is still valid regardless the number of headsets sold. Why should I be hostile to people who make me sell even one game? Nobody knows how many Pimax 5K will be sold in the future, Pimax is a startup, their product could drop a lot in price in the future.


#191

Thank you for reminding me that they sells an headset :joy:

What I meant was obvious, Valve does not sell headsets as facebook does not sell headsets. They sell games (Valve) and advertising (Facebook), the headsets only help to protect their business

I do not think Valve and Facebook earn on hardware sales, not today, it would be commercially wrong, because the indirect profit is much higher

Regarding games starting without Steam, Yes, Valve wanted it and for a good reason, SteamVR can also be distributed without Steam. It’s the Google’s “Do not be evil” strategy, when you have a huge market advantage aim to the maximum possible freedom and spreading, the most will come through your system anyway.


#192

There main revenue is software sales. But do profit off of hardware sales. More so than consoles whom often sell main Hardware at a loss. If Valve were using a similar strat than Index would be cheaper.

And it was not starting games without steam. It’s adding games & software to steam without buying it from Valve.


#193

We don’t know how much the Index costs to Valve. The headset is not particularly expensive, the price rises because of controllers and lighthouses, sold at the same price as HTC, so it could be a non-compete agreement, or simply build them in quantity could be tricky

suppose you have a headset that costs you $300, how much do you want to sell it for? 299$ o 399$? I guess $299 if you’re Valve, because you sell more and each added user will definitely buy at least $100 of games in the headset’s lifetime.


#194

Well we know for a fact Lcd panel cheaper than Oled. We know tracking sensora & other internals negiotable. Which leaves the dual lens /eye cost.

Controllers & lh do not increase Headset only price. & Valve was originally going to sell LH v2.0 modules to OEMs at $50 to $60 US ea. So likely per unit cost to manufacture for Valve between $20 to $40 at most.


#195

A 144Hz VR LCD panel? Who know? At $499 and headset with that display, that lenses, that audio, mechanical ipd, etc… isn’t expensive

as I wrote, controller and lighthouse are not part of the argument, Valve could be forced to that price for two reasons:

  • Non-hostility trade agreement with HTC
  • Production shortfalls. You can’t make too affordable what you can’t massively produce, or you wouldn’t be able to deliver the orders in acceptable time, leading to negative reputation

Who banned neelrocker?
#196

Or valve could sell LH + controllers to pimax owners (instead having them get the LH from pimax and controller too) AND still them games on steam.

Valve is in strong position VS pimax who is stuck with their tracking ecosystem. Who knows if pimax is not actively developping an inside-out addon to free their hands from valve ? I think Kevin has already talked about that (alternative tracking system).

This could even explain why the controllers are that late if they were redesigning them to make them compatible with an inside-out tracking addon.

All this LH story has gone that far I wouldn’t be surprised by a 180° turn like this… And that would be so poor… I really hope this is not were we are heading to…


Tracking Solution ideas Hybrid
#197

Inside-out addon? Something like five cameras to stick around the headset? :smiley:

Not exactly, steamVR tracking is free, but Valve has made it clear that the lighthouses will not be until the end of development to prevent someone from developing incompatible solutions. Do you know someone with a tendency to modify free technology by creating compatibility issues? Someone like Pimax?

We believe that the largest value for our customers and for Valve will come from allowing SteamVR Tracking to proliferate as widely as possible. The existence of more SteamVR-compatible devices will make the SteamVR community more valuable for customers and developers. Having a wide community of hardware developers pushing the platform forward will result in innovations that we Valve would never think of or pursue on our own. Also, all SteamVR devices and hardware components will become cheaper if more of them get made.

For now we need to make sure that there is complete compatibility among base stations and tracked devices. Longer term, we do want the hardware community to help us evolve base station design and to help innovate in that area, but given our own limited bandwidth we need to push that collaboration out to some future date


#198

HTC opening Viveport with there lucrative Dev deal. Valve has simply priced it in the higher price market. Much like HTC was originally resistant to lowering og Vive price till Oculus was gaining too much Market share.

Valve & HTC might be cooling their battleground but they are still at odds.


#199

It also makea sense for Valve to keep OEMs buying Lighthouse Modules from them. Having Hardware community help them advance their designs does not mean they need to allow independents mfg their own with licensing with strict rules.

Otherwise we would see v1.0 LHes being made by a variety of vendors to capitalize on the void on the cheap.


#200

But Why? Selling a few tens of thousands of indexes how much money can bring into Valve’s vaults?

Valve earns more than $4 billion/year with Steam, not compare it to HTC. All work done on today’s VR by Valve (and Facebook too) is strategical, in no way done to earn meaningless amounts for a company like that


#201

Answer is obvious as Valve said each headset ensures Steamvr title sales.

Why else do you think HTC started Viveport to get software sales revenue by offering great incentives to Devs for Viveport exclusives.


#202

Aren’t they crazy enough to imagine doing that ? :grin:

(and that wouldn’t be 5 cameras, I would imagine 2, with maybe the option to put 2 addons to get 4 in cams total^^)