Hybrid Controllers/Locomotion Ideas

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#1

Marco if it’s Driver4vr & the like we need folks that are using it to weigh in. If it’s captogloves; what has their Dev said?

A more somewhat update we may see something more on Controllers & LHes in September. But maybe sooner.

There is also a free alternative to Driver4vr called KinectToVR. I may soon start exploring these alternatives options. Just been pretty busy helping to get some Renovations Done & recently joined a volunteer Fire Department. There are some folks in the Discord Channel that might have some insights.

Create a new Topic with a list & will see what we can do. Looking forward to KatLoco & WalkOvr when released.


Valve Index user reviews
#2

Hi! Katloco has limitatioms as their katvr mini has too in locomotion . Who backed them (including me), will see what i mean, with games we can play and games we can not play and how we move in these games. This is why i am stuck with my own locomotion system.
Katloco console gaming locomotion support will suck really bad and will not have oculus gaming support right away, if ever. Also theirblocomotion system remove room scale. You are stuck on a spot of your gaming area. Not for me. I might be using their sensors with my diy locomotion system, if it even made possivlbly by their software that might limit the use of their katloco, same as it happens with katvr mini

Walkovr too have things that i do not like that much and that makes my own locomotion system preferable for me vs walkovr. Also walkovr would have limitations with games we can play and not play. As for walkovr, i do not like the a and s and d movements done with the chest. It feels unnatural. I prefer using feet for that.
Also the walking feels more like a stepping though maybe they will make their algorithm fine tuned. We will see. Also walkovr has no distintions for now between wasd and WASD . There is no difference between walking and running in games that do use of walking and running. We will see when walkovr will add that.

As for captogloves, they are working on their steamvr better integration but the question is when they will succeed with that and we go back to the problem i said about valve that screwed the openvr input emulator.

I have vfree gloves and they have been issues with pimax use of them . Vrfree calibration system is tedious and i do not think their tracking is fine tuned yet. When your hands disappear from in front of their head mounting module, the hands position gets messed up


#3

Ciao Wayne. For locomotion i have made my own diy locomotion system based on multiple sensors from multiple vendors. I am using the captosensors of captogloves and pressure sensors connected to it. Also i am integrating this system with tilted and bcon hardwarws for crawl and jump.
If captogloves would fix all their bugs with their software, i would be able to use just captosensors . Since their software is not optimized yet, i am forced to use also tilted and bcon for crawl and jump.
My setting can distinguish from wasd and WASD and i can keep roomscale / walking through my play area too or walking and running in place.

I can use this system to play steamvr games that supports both gamepad and vr controllers. If the game has no gamepad support, i can’t use it until captogloves fix/optimize their steamvr injection.

I can use the system to play any console game, in vr (through for example quest) or nor in vr. I can use it with any vorpx game and with any pc game and i can use it with any psvr game.

I have backed walkovr and i have their test unit already.
I have backed katloco.
I have backed cybershoes.
I own a katvr mini.

I prefer my diy system though as it for now


#4

I hear you with frustrating a pc can be overal with everything playing nice.

Sure both Katloco & walkovr are going to have their drawbacks & learning curves. Didn’t both say though you can use it with Roomscale? Software side both will need a lot if refinements. I did catch that Katloco mocap function to use the same base number of sensors as Walkovr sounds like it will have the knee & ankle sensor wired to one another.

I haven’t played with it yet but Steamvr in it’s Dasboard big picture mode. In one of tgr settings you can map controls there I think to emulate controllers. But do agree with Valve often creating issues. But then again we sometimes get that from a vatiety of sources like Gpu drivers & windows updates.

Cabling is often a pain but can be decent with a cable management system. One idea for cabling free or lessening is vr backpacks. But can have their own issues. I haven’t gotten back to the idea but was thinking an Itx build could be interesting in a backpack using a Tethered power vs tethered video/usb.

The gloves will have their issues. Vrfree if memory serves the tracker needs to see gloves.


#5

Your diy locomotion system is quite impressive! Where most are trapped into conventions waiting for things your willing to explore to come up with something in the meanwhile.

Who knows we may need to back a kickstarter with your name on it. :beers::wink::+1::sparkles:


#6

Hi! I have my doubt with katloco. I do not see any video where they show room scale movements. There is only in place movements/stepping. I do not see how a cheaper katvr product (katloco) would solve the issues that their higher priced product (katvr mini) has. There are limitstioms with katvr locomotion software that limit the use of their hardware. Sorry, but after katvr mini, i am skeptical of katvr and their katloco. I have requested changes in their software for katvr mini and months has passed and they have done nothing about it for both steamvr and console support via their pisystem which is useless supportimg 2 psvr games only

For walkovr, it does roomscale and walk in place. It is good for vr gaming/steamvr gaming, but it is not compatible with my gloves for example. Vrfree Gloves and walkovr inject the same way, practically being incompatible. For walkovr to work for now, it needs wands to be connected in steamvr. I hope they will work on their software and solve this.

For walkovr for console and pc gaming, as it for now, it does only WASD and not wasd. I asked to please add wasd. They said they will work on it but the priority is to deliver the product to backers and then later on work on refining things. So we are talking about months and months from now, maybe.

So i am stuck with my own diy system that still is far from howbibwish it would be because captoglove software has bugs forcing me to use different sensors and also not injecting in steamvr with keyboard input


#7

Thanks! No way! Lol

I just use hardwares and softwares that are out there. I am not smart to be able to make my own hardware and software.


#8

It is frustrating because of software limitations. I am waiting and waiting that developers improve/fix software bugs. I wish i could help but i have no clue about coding :frowning:
I just get ideas, test things and suggest what I think it could be improved from the software side.


#9

Forgive my ignorance. But what is WASD vs wasd. I know these are usually keyboard keys used in games for up, left, down & right. But notice your using caps to seperate.

In theory KatLoco from my understanding shoyld support roomscale like Walkovr. By using Lighthouses to track position & the sensors to capture tracking of lower limbs? Or is it that the WalkOVR supports a kind if roomscale without Lighthouses?

I do agree KatLoco is often vague in their answers. Pricewise they seem similar though as Kat your paying for 3 sensors & Walk your paying for 5 sensors that will give better accuracy. And Kat has said they would implement use of Multiple sensors.

I do think WalkOVR will be the better system overal though.


#10

I wouldn’t sell yourself short. Idea ppl who can hack a prototype as you have are the idea ppl who move things forward. You just need a team as you already demonstrate drive & direction. :beers::sunglasses::+1::sparkles:


#11

The difference betwteen wasd and WASD is that when we walk we use wasd (to move in the 4 directions in pc games) and when we run we use “shift + wasd” = WASD.
In console games we can use keyboard to gamepads emulators to use wasd and WASD to walk and run in console games (for those console 's games that allow walkimg or running with a soft or hard pressimg of the joystick on the ganepad)

So the locomotion hardware has to somehow output a signal that has both the walk (wasd) and the run (shift+wasd) capabilities for those games that have both walking and running in games.

As for roomscale, i do not think that katloco and walkovr use tracking for locomotion. Their locomotion works controlling the vr thumbpad. So in theory the roomscale should not be affected . For sure that is the case of walkovr. For katloco, i am not sure since they might run their sensors through their software 1st and then injects in steamvr. If they do that as they have done with kat walk mini, i am afraid we might have issues.

For pc games and console games 's locomotions, i call “roomscale” 's feeling, the walking accross the room which is different than standing in 1 place and walk. In that case there is no base station so the system has to be able to be sensitive enough to allow both the wallimg in place and the walking accross the room.
I can do that with walkovr for some games but not for others. The reason is that the sensitivity is game specific and that is why walkovr would use a portal with games 's pre-settings.

Ps: i mentioned wasd and WASD for walking and running 's methods. Katloco and walkovr might end up using not keyboard input in the end. No matter the method they will use, i hope they can achieve both walking and running when the games offers that


#12

Gotcha on all points. Yeah the 2 systems from my understanding are just capturing Motion through IMU’s & the position relative to the Waist sensor/base.

But yeah like most specialty controllers need to wait on projects maturity & how well it is either adopted (native) in game or Translates motions to bind to HiD (hacked to Controller/KB&MSE) Mappings.

Your experience with a wide variety is a boon as it allows you theorize potential & potenial issues. Which also is a benefit on your ingenuity of combing ideas.

HackADay a fellow used some web8? Scripting to use a smartphone’s compass as a torso twist control binding in Mechwarrior I think it was.


#13

I am not sure that the test unit of walkovr i have have got any capturimg motion capability. It works as simple input that replace the thumbpad. The other functions for walkovr were still under developing when i was sent the test unit. The test unit works more as a wasd keyboard input. The chest sensors sends asd keystrokes and the feet send w keystrokes.

You are too kind. What i did is a no brain work :wink:

I am going to write you later because i have questions about what you brought up about the steamvr input :slight_smile:


#14

Hardware & software are kinda like a puzzle getting thins to fit & making them work. Many are simply content there is no out of the box solution. Trying to use what is out there & make it work takes time & effort. Your not content to wait. Your taking charge.


#15

@Heliosurge i would like to get your thoughts on this please. We are going probably off topic (the index topic of this thread).

I have been looking into how virtual desktop allow the use of the quest controllers in steamvr through gamepad enulation in steamvr (the “use touch controllers as gamepad” option).

https://uploadvr.com/virtual-desktop-quest-update-touch-controllers/

When that option is selected , virtual desktop creates a virtual controller in windows and this virtual controller appears in steamvr as form of input.

My hope was/is that somehow i can use that virtual desktop 's virtual controller/gamepad 's injection to send keyboard inputs in a steamvr game to control the vr controller’s trackpad.

I usually create an xbox360 virtual controller, to which i assign keystokes to it, to send the wasd signal out from my sensors to the game, though gamepad emulation.

Do you know or heard of a way to take over a virtual controller (the one in this case created by virtual desktop) so that i can replace the quest joystick with wasd or add to the quest joystick movemets also wasd input ?

Also, do you know if the steamvr keybinding would allow to map the valve’s knuckles trackpad/joystick, to wasd ?


#16

Sounds interesting. Moved posts related to controller/locomotion hybrid ideas.

The Virtual Desltop plugin sounds interesting. This wasn’t affected bybthe steam streaming being pulled?


#17

Not at all because virtual desktop can be sideloaded on the quest. So there is no issue whatsoever . It works perfectly.


#18

Awesome. There is also I think AllVR for sideloading as well.


#19

Do you have any idea of what i have asked you input for?


#20

I was hoping this would be a thing, or even a universal driver to use the Index controllers as direct input devices(for any game), but it’s still early. I know there ‘was’ a way to emulate other input using FreePie and a Hydra driver(SteamVR updates tend to break things), it’s extremely complicated(need to write config file) and wouldn’t have any long term support. @mmorselli had Joy2OpenVR(needs older SteamVR version), but I think that’s been brought up before.