I see slight delay in motion when I turn my head very quickly (5k+)

issue

#1

In threads I’ve read and searches I’ve done I haven’t seen anybody report this.

If I hold my head perfectly still looking straight ahead and just twitch it very quickly either right or left just a tiny bit (like one degree) I see the world move with me for a split second before it becomes stationary. Like the tracking has a few millisecond delay before it reacts. Actually, it is a spring-like affect where the world moves with me then springs back to where it was originally.

Just viewing menus and still screens it is very obvious and I noticed it instantly when I first got the headset going. It isn’t real annoying in my racing sim (though I’ve only played for minutes so far) because there is so much gong on visually but it is a real thing and I wonder if there is some defect in my unit.

I never noticed this behavior in my 1+ years with a Vive. Anybody else see this?

FW V2.1.255.183
Pitools V1.0.1.95, also saw it with 91
1080ti
90Hz

EDIT: upgraded but no fix
FW V.1.255.191
Pitools V1.0.1.103
1080ti
90Hz


#2

@sjefdeklerk your pretty good at seeing things have you identified tjis on your 5k+?


#3

The 5k+ feels pretty close to the rift and vive in latency actually. Make sure your lighthouses arent too far apart. I have noticed some weirdness with that if they are.


#4

Somehow mine is not comparable to the Vive behavior. I have one lighthouse 5ft away (4ft up, forward and diagonal to the left of my sitting position) the other is in opposite corner of room about 8-9ft away (to the back and right of my sitting position.) That’s where they have been since I got my Vive.

Did you try to replicate the the action I described in my post or are you going from just game play behavior? I’d appreciate it if you could try exactly what I did. A very quick twitch, just a tiny angle, like just a degree. But very quick twitch.

To be honest, I’m going from memory of Vive behavior. I don’t really feel like hooking it back up to double check myself. I do know that as soon as I got the Pimax going it was the first thing I noticed.


#5

I am pretty sure I have seen other people complain about this issue but I don’t recall where it was (and I don’t think I saw a solution).

It sounds like a latency issue to me. You can try out the solutions here but I don’t know if any of them will help you.


#6

same problem, image will move with just at the moment you move your head


#7

So two 5k+ users with pixel persistence problems, the plot thickens…

This has been extensively reported by Seb to be an issue of the 8k,though it’s not too frequent as far as we know (I don’t have it for example with my 8k), it seems that this issue is appearing more on 5k+ too.

There’s no fix for it apparently, Seb theory was that it was related with slower hz frequency on the 8k but it doesn’t have any sense if it appears on the 5k+ since it’s 90hz, imho download the beta and try several hz frequencies to see if it helps or worsens.


#8

I like Seb but this theory is BS… Although it is proven that very sensitive humans can feel delay starting from 9ms (the 10Hz difference would be a 100ms, so in range theoretically) the Hz has nothing to do with how fast a signal is being triggered.

There are far more comprehensible explanations out there, like the delay is introduced by the scaler (8k)which is an additional, probably time-consuming, processing step between input and output. OCed displays show the same phenomenon and also freesync/gsync tend to have input lag issues as well.
My, admittetly far fetched, guess is that the screen of the 8k is 60Hz OCed to 80Hz.

Other headsets come with below 90Hz as well and no one complained about input lag. I extensively tested the 60Hz mode on the OD+ and apart from a more flickery light and a little less pleasing picture quality I could not recognize any delay.

BTW. it’s nice that NVIDIA supports free sync now but I have more misclicks again like before when I was using my rx480 with free sync. I turned it of since my 1080ti hardly drops below 75fps on my 21:9 4k@75Hz monitor and the input lag is gone.

OK, this does not solve your problem with the 5k but help to look at it from different angles.


#9

Are you using LHes? If so you may need a teamviewer session with @Doman.Chen


#10

Thanks zswji for the reinforcement. I thought I read somewhere that PiTool 103 provided some improvements in tracking so I updated (which imposes a FW update) but it didn’t help… and dropped my FPS a lot!


#11

Seb had already reversed what he said on that theory about hz a few times. He thinks its the 8k upscaler now.

This user could be seeing something different than the 8k’s latency wobble issue. Could be a tracking issue that needs that tracking firmware update from support.


#12

Trust me i’m very keen on that feeling of any latency :wink: 8k vs 5k+ latency (and quick 5k vs 8k impressions

I dont really have any but I did mention a tad bit of even 5k+ latency in the original post. Its hard to tell if you are seeing latency or something else tbh. Would be best to hook up your vive and just compare and see how it feels I think.

Overall the 5k+ feels very close to me to other hmds. There was a guy that had lighthouse issue with his fw and support got on and it fixed his “latency” issue. Its difficult since the word “wobble” can describe about 5 different problems here.

I can tell you I see about the same latency on 5k+ than the vive (maybe just a tad higher on 5k+ but almost the same) so if its bothering you that much try to move lighthouses closer just to test it (even if it was fine before) and try to contact support to see if theres some sort of tracking firmware update they can do like another user here did.

Fw update did not help me with 8k though as that wasn’t the problem. I still think it’s the upscaler on the 8k as sebastian does, and some people just don’t notice it. I think all 8k’s have that latency. Road to vr also saw 8k latency at CES but 5k+ fine for then. More here: https://www.roadtovr.com/pimax-8k-5k-plus-big-improvements-hands-on-ces-2019/


#13

I’ll accept your certainty that your device does not produce the effect I see. And I am equally certain, without hooking it back up, that my Vive did not exhibit this behavior. It was/is rock solid. What I see is not subtle. It is gross. Not a 3-4 pixel moment but more like 100 (?). And as I said just above, 191 103 didn’t help. (And I did go as far as pointing my forward LH, 5 ft away, directly at my head with no improvement. They are wall mounted.)

And actually, if I wiggle my head quickly from side to side instead of just a quick motion in one direction I could describe the behavior as “wobble”. It has to be latency in detecting that my head has moved. It looks just like the latency sim drivers often see in their rendered steering wheel compared to the real wheel when they turn it back and forth quickly.

I do appreciate you comments and description of your system behavior. Based on that I think I can conclude that there is something wrong with mine.


#14

Not sure if the Tracking Latency issue on some 5k+ was LH or headset sensor(this was creating a wobble as well). Best way to check is once the team is back schedule a teamviewer session with @Doman.Chen. He had to calibrate something in the headset to fix. Hopefully that’s the problem.


#15

:+1:

@Heliosurge @Doman.Chen
How would I schedule such a session with Doman.Chen? SUPEN ticket?


#16

Support site was reported down. Might need to wait til tomorrow. Once Doman is available he will likely try to arrange a time that you & he can do a teamview session.


#17

I guess I’ll PM him to get on his radar. Or have you done that?


#18

Haven’t pmed him but have put a couple @pokes. But a good idea to do so.


#19

will do…


#20

I do too actually, I’ve noticed. A type of image persistence.