It’s time to correct the Pimax “8K” name issue


#21

Could even use Endeavor as well.

But i think as a community we should turn our focus on things like were doing here. Attempting to advance what we can.

Help fix the naming scheme with suggestions.
Those with Artistic talents like @4rcane work on graphical designs.

Work on creating standards for responsible headset spec reporting etc.


#22

The difference is that, although other industries (like TV or storage) rely on specs which may not be as clear as they could be, at least all the players are largely in alignment with how they’re using the terminology. When it comes to Pimax, they’re using the ‘K’ in a way that’s very different than most people expect that it would be used, which is why there’s confusion.


#23

But if you recall not so many years ago Seagate had a class action suit against them for not using tge pre existing standard.

1 meg = 1024 by memory & flash drive makers.

Where as Hard disks were counting 1 meg = 1000

Now those of us who have been around would know that mem chips followed an imperial type format.

Ie 8, 16, 32, 64 etc.

So 1 meg imp = 1024

Where as Hard drive makers are using a Metric standard

So 1 meg = 1000.

Now going by what @sjefdeklerk said is true Manufacturers generally rely on Consumers educating themselves on the specs reported.

So yes using a non standard Aspect Ratio many un-educated consumers will see 8k (7.6k actual) as used by PiMax does not line up against 8k (7.6k actual) at what ppl have gotten used to as the norm. But Neither is incorrect & neither though is truly 8k.

Cause double 8k at 16:9 based on accepted 4k tv (3.8k actual) & you are loosing over 1k.

160009000 (16k actual)is considerably more than 152608640 (15.2k actual). Just look at the difference in numbers.

This why if they want to call it “k” then we should start with that & use it to determine size of the smaller number.

:beers::wink::+1::sparkles:


#24

Hmmnnn. Pimax 8K Horizon. The horizon implying 8000 pixels, if you round up, across the horizon. They can even use that to clarify in the marketing on the box, <----- 8000 pixels -----> Or use an arc in a perspective. That way there is no name change, just a model distinction of the 8k series, and there is clarification.

Hopefully, by now everyone understands when you lie in marketing it’s like putting venom in your own bloodstream, your customer’s sentiments about you. A car dealership can get away with being shysters cause they are parasitic on other brands. But in off the shelf retail, especially in electronics, significantly if you want to claim the bleeding edge, you have no one else to blame but yourself. Integrity is everything at this level of game. If you want to claim to be the best you’ve got to be prepared to connect with the sharpest customers, or they’ll chew you up and spit you out.

No changes, just the addition of clarity for the consumer. You could use this image with the addition of <------ 7680 pixels (8K) ------> boldly across near the top. clarity. Problem solved.


#25

What is giving problems is the 8K; for the name, the shorter the better.


#26

Couldnt agree more. The 8K only serves as a distraction and a constant ‘disclaimer’ when being reported on.

A new name is needed. I like Horizon:)


#27

I don’t see the issue with 5K and 8K, in as much as they are model names not directly specifications. 4K was already in use for 4096 × 2160 (cinema 4K) when TV’s rocked up with their 3840 (not really) “4K” and now they are at it again with 7680 = 8K. And projectors that accept a 1080p input but call themselves “4K” because of pixel shifting. And HDR TV’s that struggle to reach 400 nits.
And 5K TV’s that are 21:9 2160p.

Basically they are all at it, 4K is used by at least 3 different resolutions that arent actually 4000 pixels wide so why shouldnt pimax use “8K” as a model name for a 32:9 2160p layout. They could call it the 4K-X2 or the R2-D2 for all i care.


#28

Pimax 8k

pro:
it annoys people.
Which seems to be a new marketing technique, as people are forced to think, research and discuss wrong stuff - It´s bad, but still good marketing. (that´s why this thread even exist, no one made a thread about vive “pro” is not really “pro”, or oculus “rift” isn´t actually a rift … )

contra:
it annoys people.
Because it´s misleading, and about a feature which this product doesn´t have (2x4k isnt 8k).

It would be better to name it, by giving it a good name (horizon, and horizon 5 or horizon 8 or horizon 8x sounds great to me too). Or use the naming sheme you already use. How do we defiriante the 4k models? I have a Pimax 1000 (4k display) others have the Pimax 1007 (2.5k Oled). They could just steal nvidia naming sheme.

then we would have Pimax 1150 (5k), Pimax 1180 (“8k”) and Pimax 1190 (“8kX”), 11 because it´s the second generation of HMDs, last numbers for tiers, and maybe last number for version like 1185 instead of 1190 for the X model.


#29

Are you sure it is imperial format? Anyway HDD manufacturers are right. It is just memory manufacturers who decided to use kilo, mega, etc. for power of 2. and misled the people. :wink:


#30

4K TV’s arent actually 4K, so how is this any different. And no 4K isnt an accepted standard as there are 4 different “standards” that all claim the name 4K but aren’t even 4000 pixels wide.


#31

Horizon fits better with the concept and the design of the headset imho. I made an experiment using the blue line as an horizon


#32

I’ll bet most people couldn’t tell you what 4K means. They will still buy a 4K tv because it looks good. Most wouldn’t even know what upscaling is. For my part it is not the actual resolution but how good it looks for what I invested. There are people making false claims and stating highly debatable things about their products every day and we still buy them because despite some of the more obvious exaggerations we still like what we get. It is not to say companies should not strive for accuracy in labelling and that customers should not call them on this, Just saying that the success of this product isn’t based on the truth in advertising scenario. If it achieves what we all hope, it will be the hmd to have. The name issue will still be prefaced in articles and people will go ya but who cares, have you seen this thing in action? If not, nobody will care then either.
It is fair to ask for labels that aren’t misleading, but I don’t see it making a lot of difference to the success or failure of this thing. It will either be the VR headset everyone wishes they had or are glad they avoided and I doubt the name will have much of anything to do with either case.
Not losing any sleep over the nomenclature. A really stupid name could have a more negative outcome on a retail product’s sales that a well know misnomer.


#33

I never would have or would support the “k” naming sheme, as it already was defined before TV-Manufactures started to use it wrong. I don´t like this naming sheme for so many reasons. People tend to call 1440p “2k” even thought it´s 2560x1440 (2.5k), also FHD isn´t called 2k but often 1k.
For 16:9 saying the vertical amount of lines is the way to go, for anything diffrent the whole resolution XXXXxYYYY should be used or scale with y Like 16:10 1200p.
Still people could argue that 4000 is close enough to 3840(x2160) and 16:9 is expected. But this isnt the case here, and should be clear imo.


#34

Now on the last note you said is “what ppl expect”.

Now I want to be clear I fully respect you & your publication & truthfully any others.

Media’s responsibility imho is to report & educate the masses (where possible). Often though we side with public trends/presumptions according to perceived norm.

While rediculous imho if i put 4 1080p @ 16:9 monitors together…
1980/1080 x 4 = 7680/1080 at 64:9 aspect. Under the accepted 7.6k being 8k we have 1080p at 64:9.

In the above we’d both agree with that its 8k with a ridiculous aspect ratio. But would not compare properly with 8k tv.

However add a pic as @Cdaked brought up we can illustrate the truth.

Create an 8k(7.6k) 16:9 rectangle & place the 8k at 32:9 inside it.

Consumers will see it matches the Width spec but at half height.

"In the above pic you can see while it is not 8k as in TV. It is 8k by width with half the height of 16:9, this is due to the headset using twice the width giving it the same height as 4k tv but with the width of an 8k tv. The PiMax uses an aspect ratio of 32:9.

With links to aspect ratio & explaining that an 8k at 32:9 has half the pixel count of 16:9.

I’m sure you could write the draft up cleaner & clearer but now your educating the consumer instead of promoting a double misnomer due to consumers presumptions of what 8k is & isn’t.

With more 21:9 screens being made & closer or the same as cinema it is potenially likely that we may see the shape of tv change again from 16:9 to 21:9.


#35

Just look at the numbers & look at a tape measure.

Harddrive use kilo & mega as well.

They just now have fine print.

Imperial
8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512 etc.

Imperial inches
1/8, 1/16, 1/32, 1/64, 1/128

Metric jumps 10, 100, 1000 etc

So consider metric ton vs imperial ton. :beers::wink::+1::sparkles:


#36

You want to know what really triggers me?
Not only when people use awkward naming shemes when there are better available XxY, or just the sum of pixels like 16mp… BUT when they start to mix diffrent technologies where pixels are defined totally diffrent like classic LCD/IPS/AVA panels with OLED.
Like 1440p on LG G3 and 1440p on a Samsung S7, People don´t get it that S7 has 1/3 less pixels (subpixels) then the G3.
Same applies for comparing the Pimax 4k and 8k with the Vive or Rift - the difference so much bigger then numbers tell you on first sight.

(Also I don´t think this is what imperial means. 2^n is not the definition of imperial afaik)

edit#1(funny enough I actually know that “foot” is defined as 0,3048 meter, yes they use meters to define how long a foot is)

edit#2 actually Metric doesnt have jumps like 10^n, it uses jumps like kilo, mega, tetra, micro, nano… which are jumps of 10^(3*n)


#37

First I thought Pimax 16 MP or Pimax OctaHD or Pimax 8k/2 would be good. On second thought - then people would probably complain “it’s not really 2x4k, it’s just blown up 1440p”. So I’m with @Cdaked and others now - better a name without any numbers.

The mentioned “Pimax Horizon” would be very matching - but apparently it is already taken: https://www.amazon.de/Arcade-Horizon-Wireless-Controller-Smartphones-Schwarz/dp/B01GR869W6

Some further brainstorming along the same lines:
Panorama
Panopticon
Sphere (having one syllable words seems to be a trend for VR HMDs :slight_smile: )
Dawn
Ray
Shark
Hammerhead
Surround
Inception
Surreality
Sky
High
Up
+
Pow


#38

Pimax Hammerhead… this name has some impact! And it describes the aesthetic of the hmd and gives some animalistic nuances and/or some cool mascoot. I´ll take this as my new fav name for this HMD.

edit#1 Also If you thinking about playing FPS Games, you could actually feel like a shark. You have a lot more FOV then your oponents in VR (which is obviosly totally unfair) this changes the situation from beeing an equal to a predator in this type of games. It´s much harder to flank someone who has 200° of FOV and he will see you coming anytime, anywhere, and shoot at you without even to have to turn his head.


#39

Metric
10mm = 1cm
100cm = 1m
1000m = 1kilometer

:v::wink::+1::sparkles:

Raised mainly on metric but prefer Imperial for measurement lol.

Fractions of an inch 1/64, 1/32, 1/16, 1/8, 1/4, 1\2

Harddrive manufactures use metric to define size memory & most flash memory doubles starting something like 8, 16, 32 etc. & now one would have to look at old mfm, rll, early ide & scsi drives to see if they followed originally the same standard for size as ram chips which if mem serves they had.

But i think maybe the best way to explain PiMax 8k is 8k half height.

I recall 5 1/4 inch hard drives at full height occupied 2 5 1/4 drive bays the later ones were refered to 5 1/4 1\2 height.


#40

The 2 exceptions of the rule are dm and cm, which are used because they are convenient*. The good thing about them is centi stands for a fraction of 1/100, and deci for 1/10. So yeah we use fractions to and I agree, you´re right about it.

*cm for school, daily stuff, and chemistry
*dm because a liter ist dm^3 and 0,1m^3 is unhandy

still meters and the 10^3*n are prefered for anything scientific/engineering related (again except electro chemistry, it tends to use cm sometimes for what ever reason)

The funny thing about hard drives here in europe is, that you learn about bits and bytes already in school, where a kilobyte is defined as 1024 bytes and so on. The way how hard drives where sold was found to be misleading by (you guessed it) everyone. Thats why they are forced to add a table or definition on how they calculate a kilo/mega/terrabyte here (It´s written on every hdd´s package). The companies lost some law cases on deception, because people agreed on things like common sense.