Just my two cents for the decision between 5K+ and 8K


#61

But only if we get either rgb oled custum or stacked displays.

Standard oleds are pentile.


#62

The 8K isn’t getting any edge from SS; it’s blurring the image too much to take advantage of higher super sampling. Rescaling from 2560x1440 is almost a pessimal case for its panel. It isn’t showing more detail, it’s blowing individual details up. That’s why e.g. fine digits will merge into blobs, things that are distinct on the 5K+ get scaled into blobs that merge on 8K. That’s precisely the opposite of resolution, so 8K backers aren’t getting what they paid for. Where it does carry an advantage is gradual colour transitions, where it will break up banding with its grainy appearance and the interpolation smoothing doesn’t necessarily destroy detail.


#63

That MIGHT actually be fixable. I hope so. I hate pixel jaggies, so I’d like to get an 8K, if it’s a reasonable choice by the time I need to decide.

Details: Important questions for Pimax


#64

I sure hope so too.


#65

may be i should have written it like: the 8k (with full rgb as it was initially planned or at least people thought it would have) could have a edge more in detail …
also detail is different from sharpens in that context

i tried to transport the problem of the 8k presumably not even having enough pixels 4 lines down with the “lower (sub-)pixel count”

that ss does not give any positive effect in detail (in the current state) was already proven by mrtv and sweviver when they used pitool setting 2.0 and steamvr 300% with both headsets

the 8k showing more details then 5k+ is at least more far fetched then the 5k+ having equal color and black after pimax reworking the color profile of the 5k+

if you are right about the 8k panel (subpixel) then the 8k can only reach the detail level of the 5k+ and having a “smoother” image
most people still expect that there will be a huge jump in detail but imho that can’t be realized when the 8k panel does not have a significant higher resolution then the 5k+ panel


#66

I’ve tried both HMD’s in Berlin, and the 8K ran Skyrim VR with 170° and good graphics quality very smooth. Of course, as I learned later, SS was left at default. But to be honest: Image quality in the 8K was already that good, that I did not notice it.

@FPS:
Furthermore, I am using a 4K until now which runs @ max 60 Hz, sometimes below. And it does not bother me at all.
So, considering my two cents, I’d prefer the 8K with even less SDE than the 5K+, the better colours NOW, @170° and even if it runs only at 60 or 70 FPS/Hz. FOV is already such a large improvement over 1st gen HMD’s, and the image is homogenous sharp all over - so I will even increase SS up to 1.3 or 1.5 and play with 50-60 FPS, if that works :slight_smile:

Of course, somebody coming from a Rift or Vive (Pro) with 90 Hz/FPS might have different preferences and won’t be able or willing to adapt to lower FPS/Hz. But for me: No problem :smiley:

I’ll stick with the 8K - can’t wait Pimax to ask me - hopefully in the course of the next 1-2 weeks :slight_smile:


#67

Thanks for that. Yeah all this talk about sharpness etc is irrelevant in a way because 8K is already sharper and better than anything out there. And yeah great SDE and lower FPS doesn’t bother you. Makes sense and you’ll be delighted with the 8K, enjoy it! :slight_smile:

Skyrim though is one of the games that runs fairly well and for me the concern is being able to paly all games, many of which are quite demanding. Eg SweVivers latest check of DCS is on the edge of fps tolerability and that’s only on normal FOV. Plus the dials etc on the cockpit are relatively blurry. Still, if you’re not into DCs world sort of game it’s not an issue.

How do you find the distortion on 170fov in Skyrim?


#68

I did not notice very much about that in my 10 minutes that day… although I was outdoor (Riverwood) and it was a bright, shiny day. If I tried to concentrate on the outer borders, yes, I saw them. But while playing, not annoying at all. Might be there are worse scenarios than the one I had for my trial.

Yes, of course. Lucky me - I don’t have DCS :wink:
But I have other games, of course. Just saw a Video of Sebastian/MRTV where he compared Project Cars 2 in both headsets, and it ran very well and smooth (5K+ about 50-51 FPS, 8K about 56-57 FPS) on his 1080 TI. I still have Project Cars 1 which should work even better, perhaps.
Then, Euro Truck Simulator 2, which might be a bit more demanding since there is a lot of movement in the world which consumes (CPU-)performance, as well. I am quite curious how this will work…

Last but not least, there are some older RPG’s such as Dragon’s Dogma, Risen, the Witcher, which I want to run via vorpX in VR. As well as my default Skyrim, heavily modded… Hopefully, they’ll get / stay above 40-50 FPS as they do with my 4K.

And yes: I only have a 1080 OC from ASUS, not even a TI.
But I am quite optimistic, it will run fine - for my needs.

As mentioned: Somebody used to 90 FPS/Hz and ASW probably might have some more difficulties with one game or the other… So, yes, decision is really hard.


#69

Sorry people. I need opinion from people who tried both.

I was with the 8K by the SDE. But now MRTV said in the last video… SDE in 8K is worst than 5K+. And same like Vive Pro.

Now I don’t know what to do. My only problem is with the sde. Kill my immersion.


#70

@SweViver and @VoodooDE have stated that the SDE is less on the 8K.

I have not tried either headset and haven’t yet decided which I’ll get. I’m leaning towards the 5K, but if Pimax can improve the 8K visuals, I’ll likely get it instead. I do think it may be possible to improve the 8K, depending on the source of the blurriness.

I think part of the issue is that the SDE patterns are just different. We’ve all spent a lot of type looking at RGB stripe monitors (and depending on your age, staring at CRTs with obvious horizontal raster lines). That means you may prefer a horizontal stripe, over a more “checkerboard” pattern.

As to what to do? Don’t fret too much. Either headset is better overall, than any of the other consumer units. The SDE is fairly similar for both. The big feature is the large FOV; @mixedrealityTV even said that in his recent review. I do think the better deal is the 5K+, because of the $100 credit. I only ordered 1 base station, so I’d either get a second one or get the LeapMotion module.


#71

Really, people need to stop hanging on every word of these reviewers like what they say is the Bible. People probably need to stop hanging on every word of the Bible too but that’s a different matter…

All reviewers and most Berlin testers say SDE is better on 8K. However they all say the difference is small varying from barely noticeable to slight at best. They all also say it’s a different sort of pattern so it’s hard to compare. It will obviously depend on the game, the background etc etc.

So here MRTV was simply commenting on it whilst he was mid game and saying “oh look teh SDE being diagnonal seems more noticeable to me”. At that moment it’s what he felt, but the point of these videos was not a proper AB test to check SDE. It was a passing comment.

HAVING SAID THAT what he vid does show is that clearly the difference is not as great as people assume. And thus if the main reason you are wanting the 8K is for a far better/nonexistent SDE then think again. The SDE is still there, and isn’t going to be so much better than the 5K+ to warrant getting that instead. I think he said it’s similar to the Vive Pro. I have the Vive Pro and whilst yes it’s pretty good it’s still clearly visible when you look for it.


#72

I really don’t get it, there were people on the Berlin meetup that clearly said that SDE was worse on 5k compared to 8k, to the point that the SDE was clearly visible on the 5k at all times while 8k was barely visible:

So yeah, I’m really surprised about MRTV saying not that 5k is worse or even equal but better, this is just absurd.


#73

Thanks. For me the SDe of the Vive Pro and Odyssey is like a knife for my eyes xD


#74

Thanks a lot @Skyrimer ! That’s true.


#75

Iirc Seb wears glasses but not when he’s using a headset, that would certainly contribute to lessening SDE on any headset really


#76

As you wrote, there were people who said that, but there were also people who said they did not observe any difference (or that they considered one SDE worse than the other). I also believe that the perceived SDE will depend on the game and Pimax configuration. @mixedrealityTV made this comment on this particular game and this particular setup, who knows on what game and setup commented the people from the meetup.

I would simply suggest to take those SDE comments as anecdotal experience which is apparently not conclusive over the sampling set of people, games and configurations and focus on other aspects which are less fuzzy and easier to reproduce.


#77

Someone may tell that pimax 4k has better sde than other while I like diagonal pixel and may tell that sde of pimax 4k is “worse” because I don’t like zigzag pixel. So it has many meaning and feeling on that word.


#78

The thing is that I tend to listen more to people that are clearly seeing it, there were people that said that there was no SDE on Oculus cv1 or they don’t see it after a while on cv1 or Vive, but for me sde is a nightmare and always keeps me from being fully immersed.


#79

Well yeah if it’s that bad for you I’d recommend you hold tight for 5-6 years until we get imperceptible SDE because by most accounts SDE in the 8K is only a little better than 5K+ and so will still be a knife to your eyes, albeit perhaps slightly more blunt knives.


#80

I can pretty much agree with @sk1 here. All this talk about the SDE from receiver perspective is about how much will we still see of it and will we still be annoyed by it. And from the testers perspective, no matter if berlin meetup attendees or official reviewer, it’s mostly like… yeah different. And thats simply because, they start trying the hmd out, without noticing it badly, then they look for it and when they find it, they are in a specific scenario and color palette and dark/light vr environment, that mostly never is comparable to another scenario with another hmd. Add to that the totally different pattern of the SDE and add to that the totally different preferences and perceptions of each individual and you have the perfect mindfup for the receiver perspective.
Now we get this new series of @mixedrealityTV where he very commonplacey and out of the boxey userfriendly compares 3 headsets, and mostly talks about how really really awesome and truly truly amazing it is with the wide fov, but when it comes to SDE he never compares the amount of SDE between the hmds. He instead compares the “very similar structure” of the pattern of the SDE of the Vive Pro with that of the 8K.

“This diagonal pentile structure, just as we have it on the pimax 8K. that is very comparable”.

…he states, but he never talks about if it is rather more annoying on one device than on another. he says he has a preference to the SDE pattern of the 5K. But he doesn’t talk about the amount.
And i think that is simply because it just isn’t as simple as that.
And another rather irritating mixing up in this series, but also in the threads is the swapping between “clarity” and “SDE”.

“If you come from the vive pro and then change to the pimax 5k+ and the pimax 8k, i don’t think you will feel like wow everything looks much clearer. the clarity is very comparable to the 5k+.”

“Clarity” as all testers seem to agree is way better on the 5K+ compared to the 8K.
And SDE is a little better on the 8K compared to the 5K+

So don’t mix that up. I think @mixedrealityTV does in his new series, but maybe not on purpose. He just keeps on talking about the experiences and then it happens, but on the receiver side everybody is like feverishly listening.

On the receiver Side of all this testing, we all can be assured of perceivable SDE on both devices.
We can be assured of the different pattern of the SDEs.
And we can be assured that it isn’t as annoying as we know it to be mostly in VR.
(offcourse some will be annoyed more, some less :smirk:)

cheers