My opinion about SDE both 8k and 5k+ (mr.uu)

review

#21

“Simple truth subjective viewpoint. All reports are true from ones perspective”
I agree, but not sure one person can hold opposite perspectives at the me time ie ‘Coke is way better than Pepsi, but the differences are all negligable’? :wink:


#22

So, basically when someone tells you he like something that you dont, he is wrong?

I think everyone can only agree with that and even with differents SS.
But it is not about which have the best clarity and many ppl may have been fooled by the meaning Clarity we are talking about.
Its about the one some people like more than other.
Some like them fat and some like them skinny.

He made his choice and maybe in a few days someone will pop telling us had a 8k and he just recevied a 5k+ that he felt in love with.

8k FTW anyways :wink:


#23

As toba said, i probably got used to the SDE ofthe 8k.

With “negligible” i mean that we are all human an there is obviously no such think as objectivity.

For me there is difference, what i and others outlined. But the weighting of these differences is very subjective.

Edit: With all the information about 5k+ and 8k, by now everybody should be able to decide which headset is better for him.
Point of view from 8k:
-less SDE than 5k+ (for me similar to the 4k, whereas at the 4k i see this zigzag pattern i do not like, the 8k pattern is much nicer and over time does not distract anymore from the experience);
-less Hz, so slightly more jitter on fast paced horizontal head movements (i am using driving sims like iracing, pc2, etc. with 8k and it is fine for me, so no “nogo” there for simmers but could be an issue for some). Want to add that i used the 4k with 60Hz without a problem (did not perceive flicker) but tried 60Hz on the odyssey and it was flickering like hell. 75Hz DK2 was fine for me. Issue is probably the non-persistent driving of the oled displays (they shut almost completely off between frames), so lcd there is much better for my eyes @60Hz.
-probably more homogeneous colours/better quality panels because of more expensive panels;
-less sharp picture, makes reading smal text more difficult because of blur but makes the overall picture more soft so less aliasing visible than on 5k+.

Did i forget something? Yes, price is not the same :wink:


#24

Exactly, how everyone weight differences is what makes choice solely based on feedbacks difficult.

Still it remains contradictory to tell differences are negligible while describing in the meantime a “huge disappointment” for one HMD or “way better SDE”, which evokes the opposite of “negligible differences”. :yum:


#25

Diferences are negligible for the average user. For me as power user i see all the differences because i own and tried way too many headsets


#26

No it’s not about who likes what more. This is subjective and useless to help others make a choice.

Only objective statements are useful to help make a choice without testing both.

For exemple people almost all agree the 5K+ is clearer/sharper, so we can state this is objective fact, we just cannot clarify that fact further by precisely quantifying that difference because subjectivity plays a role there. In fact we could get a more precise idea about that if we asked a large number of people to rate sharpness on a 10 scale, it would already give a better idea, still not perfect but more precise already. But as long as this hasn’t been done the only valid statement is the 5K+ is sharper at similar input res.

Then people can use such objective statements to decide for one or the other HMD depending on their own preference (prefer sharpness or prefer softness).

I’m not judging anyone choice, I’m trying to collect factual (objective) characteristics of both HMDs. Color temperature is another objective difference between both. Refresh rate difference is objective too. But saying softer image is more natural is not objective, this is subjective unless almost everyone was agreeing with this statement (and I have not seen such consensus after reading a lot of feedbacks).


#27

What would be a 10? Real world?


#28

Yeah but

what is BETTER :slight_smile:

Perception is subjective

Same… ^^


#29

He’s for democratic objectivity.

I say (assuming that you have a good camera), take a picture, take it to photoshop, add some sharpen passes to it and post the 2 pictures on a photography forum, ask them which one looks correct…

VR is about immersion so yes it has to look correct.


How much improvement has there been in the software?
#30

Some very good points here.

The 5K+ is sharper with more clarity in text but the difference is way smaller now than it was back when i did my initial Pimax review. Things has improved. Not dramatically but still enough to make the 8K look significantly better than it did in the past. All the reaolution and rendering changes in PiTool has clearly made a difference.

As for games, it all depends what u play. Some will look better on the 5K+, but still feel better on the 8k. Clarity is not always the most important factor.

As for the upcoming 5K BE Im 100% sure the SDE is clearly worse as i remember it back in Berlin, but then we have that contrast, colors and blacks that makes a huge bump in immersion playing dark games or sims.

In most games the 5K+ looks really great, but i can admit there are times i wish the SDE was less apparent in very bright scenes. Here, the 8K is slightly better despite loosing some clarity.

After all, there is no clear winner here. I prefer the 5K+ overall, but we are all different. We see things differently and we value/prioritize things differently.

In a perfect world everyone would try each headset before chosing one, but thats of course not possible at this time.

I think we could have endless discussions about the differences between 5K+, 8K or 5K BE, but in the end - how important are those minor differences to you?

One thing is for sure. If u dont do direct side-by-side comparisons, you will most likely never suffer from the slightly more pale blacks on the 5K+, you will never bother about the more visible SDE on the 5k+ or the slightly lower clarity on the 8K.

Whatever Pimax u choose eventually, it will be a significant step up from your previous VR HMD. You cant deny that fact :slight_smile:


#31

good points, and then even what is a minor difference is for one is a huge difference for another who is sensitive to it. What makes it super confusing to make a choice with the info there is.
I think everybody undecided should go to your next meetups :slight_smile:


#32

Yep. Being at those meetups i have heard so many different opinions from backers regarding 5K+ vs 8K. Its crazy how different we are :grin:


#33

haha indeed it’s weird.
I just had an (maybe crazy) idea, there will be meetups but backers did already had to decide, maybe it’s nice to put a tread on the forum where backers can exchange the headsets with eachother if they discover they like the other one way more. Then there is less pressure now


#34

Exactly! If I can read the small text in Elite on an 8K, that’s the headset I would get. I changed to the 5K+ a few days ago, based on the feedback from the Chicago meet-up. I am very annoyed by aliased pixels, which is why I have a 4K monitor. I have better color discrimination than most people, which is why the 8K is so appealing. Of course, if I can’t easily read text in Elite, VR is mostly useless for me.

I wonder if the setup in Chicago had a poor configuration for the 8K. :thinking:


#35

No, you are mixing up charasteritic and perception of this charateristic by a user.
The former is objective (perfectly definite, at least at the precision level of your measuring tool), only the latter is subjective (varying from one user to another).

Color temperature or refresh rate are objective characteristics, they are mesurable (in kelvin and hertz).

I’m focusing on characteristics, that’s what can help people to chose without testing the HMD by themselves (as long as they know their own preference and sensitivity to those characteristics. I know I prefer warmer color temp and I’m very sensitive to refresh rate and latency, but that won’t help others to find which HMD is better for them. Characteristics can).


#36

i do really wonder too, i can’t imagine things are not readable in ed with the 8k


#37

It is absolutely readable.
Last time I tried it I couldnt find anything small enough that I couldnt read.
Sorry only in french, I should make on in english but to summarize everything is perfectly readable.


#38

thanks for comfirming (edit) and the video. How was the aliasing?


#39

Would you bet your hand on this ? Or could it be pimax has just made you loose your past references by changing (again) the base resolution (or whatever voodoo they are doing with pitool) ?

I remember when pimax made such a resolution change earlier there wasn’t a consensus between you 3 musqueeters about the visual gain in pratice for both HMDs.

And remember visual gain alone doesn’t mean anything if you don’t make performance analysis in the meantime. I mean if the resolution change is just making pitool 1.0 become was previously was pitool 1.25 you haven’t gained (improved, like improving an algorithm to make it more efficient) anything.

If pimax really had made improvement resulting in 8K getting closer in clarity to the 5K+ for the same performance level (fps) I wonder why they haven’t promoted that work in the forum.

But precisely they are not always minor for everyone. Some find the SDE difference is huge. The majority thinks the SDE difference is minor. And this is the same for other charactersitics that differ between the 2 HMDs.

So we cannot generalize by saying differences between both are minor and people will be happy with either they chose.

The latency for exemple: very few seem sensitive enough to notice it. So you can be tempted to claim people should not bother about it (and many people do). But I, for exemple, know this is a crucial aspect for me. I’m not sure I will notice it but I know if I do this will be a gamebreaker for me. So even if I know the risk is low that I’m part of those who see it, I don’t want to take that risk.

At least this I think we can take as an objective statement as I can’t remember someone stating he prefered his vive or rift. At least for the “step-up” statement, because I wouldn’t include the “significant” adjective.

I remember the reactions from Berlin, people were not all enthusiast at the same degree. Even recently I have read feedback from people who just received their pimax and were not over excited in their feedbacks, and were already thinking about the HMD they may get next.

I think I will be in this group too (and I have this opinion for a while now), the pimax I will get will be a transition HMD I won’t keep for that long, especially since xtal seems well decided now to make a consumer version derived from their business tech. So it is very possible I won’t keep the pimax much longer than a year.


#40

HMD swapping program, ahah, I like the idea :blush:

That’s the positive side of that super long wait for delivery, we may have had time to become a strong enough community to organize such HMD swap between each others :smiley: