My own thoughts about V5 prototype and the "mixed" reviews


#22

I didn’t see Xunshu saying the lenses were a step back. He said something along the lines that reflections along the edges were an identified issue that they are correcting. Its a pretty good leap to characterize that the way you have. None of the issues presented really seem that difficult to me other than the 90hz issue which Pimax stated might require new electronics which is indeed a thing.

Also almost no press showed the new pimax 8k headstrap which is a massive improvement. Too bad Pimax didn’t show that directly along side the v5 prototype. Some of the CES shortcomings were clearly Pimax bad presentation and poor convention organizational skills and not the hardware they were showing.


#23

Question: Is there, as it looks on pictures, no way to adjust eye relief?

I strongly suspect the importance of sweetspot becomes exponentially more important with canted screens, including most probably having to rematch IPD and eye relief (as well as the game camera projection and distortion offset), whenever one change either.

This could account for some of the discrepancies in reporting - if one have about the same facial structure as most of the Pimax engineers, one might get a decent result - otherwise…

If this assumption holds true, I, with my caveman countenance, am probably going to find the 8k a bit challenging (have to use both Vive and Rift without the padding, as it is). :7


#24

Truth. I think your right on the hardware ipd. Regular scuba mask vr would not cause as much headache just moving the lenses. But with peripherals the binocular overlap will shift.

So the team may need to consider having the lens & screen move together to maintain the blend between binocular & peripheral.

Media often goes with public opinion trends. & this is how 4k being 3840 & not 4000 slipped past. Its also why TV was originally smart & called Fhd 1080p & not 2k (probably at that time learned from the Hard drive industry). But the industry likes to save on ink 2 digits costs less tyen printing 4. They should have stuck with the ####p @ 16:9 standard.

But not to worry US is the land of lawsuits. Lol


#25

Indeed there is a movie called “Inside Job” that details the collapse of Islandic(sp) banks & brought to light banks buying reviews from harvard & other institutions.

Moral alot if families lost their life savings over fluff reports.

In Plane Sight expained Theory nicely.

If you buy a lotto ticket - you might win. Theory

Once you have bought 1; its a possibility.


#26

First off, your example is for the movie industry and it wasn’t paid 3rd parties, it was Sony employees making the fake endorsements. That isn’t even close to the same thing as a company paying a journalist to trash another company’s product, which is what you insist is happening here. That practice does not happen. You’ve made it up in your head.

Are there companies that pay for positive reviews? Sure. Do most reviewers take them up on that? Absolutely not!
It doesn’t serve a reviewer any good to sell their integrity at that level.
The negative reports about the Pimax prototype at CES were peoples natural reaction to the experience they had. It’s that simple. Oculus and HTC don’t pay people to shit on other products. Any company that makes a product worth your time wouldn’t dream of doing that (for one, it’s absolutely illegal to pay someone to sway their opinion for a review, and it’s illegal to accept such a bribe. https://tech.co/legal-lowdown-fake-paid-reviews-2015-04 ).

Oculus and HTC provide hardware for reviewers to evaluate and give their opinion on. That does not come with any expectation or requirement of positive feedback of any kind.

“But please don’t forget big websites are often (not all but apparently most of them) sponsored sites/channels. Sponsored NOT by small Chinese companies like Pimax. They are usually sponsored by the “big guys” currently competing in the VR industry (you know who) and their smaller partners. And therefore they MAY also be a bit influenced by those brands and their headsets.”

Sweviver, this is an irresponsible statement to make and it’s absolutely not true.
Marketing departments are completely segregated from editorial staff at the big sites. Articles are paid based on page count or character count at a predetermined rate. The subject of the article has no bearing on the pay level.
The only time you may encounter paid reviews is with the smaller websites that are manned by a small team that could potentially see economic benefit from it. A staff writer or freelancer would never see a pay raise for something like this.

And how do I know this?
I’m a tech reviewer for a major tech website.
I’m getting tired of people unjustly shitting on my profession and my industry colleagues based on unfounded claims and paranoia.


#28

Important words. Thanks for sharing, Martin.

I’m getting the Vive Pro too. Sold my PSVR when HTC announced the Pro and managed to bump it up a bit more with my latest paycheck. So I will pre-order/order the hmd-only as soon as it is possible. I want the first batch cake. I’m actually more excited about the Pro than the 8K simply because I know I will have it my hands pretty soon. Fallout VR and Elite Dangerous with the Pro - oh, man, I’m like a child (who knows he’s gonna get Castle Grayskull) waiting for christmas.


#29

I tend to agree that I do not believe that it is happening here with Pimax, rather that they simply still have a couple of issues to sort out before the 8K becomes a true contender, and the journalists like Ben Lang are just being precise in their assessment of the state of the 8K. And given the fact that it was one year ago that they first saw the 8K, and progress since then seems to have been less than spectacular, you can understand if they are a bit sceptical whether Pimax will be able to resolve its remaining issues with the 8K in the coming 2-3 months.

However, as to journalists being unaffected by commercial mechanisms - sorry, I am not that remote from the real world. Just check out the reviews of popular games with games magazines. Will the publisher of the game buy some ads ? Will they even offer time-exclusive reviews, pre-reports, insights ? Guess what, a journalists who calls them out for flaws just as he would with others who don‘t grant him such favours, who gives them a mediocre review if their game is mediocre, will not be considered for the same next time - umless he has the rare status which protects him from such earthly issues. Not so many who can claim to be in that circle.
Don‘t get me wrong, in most cases it will not be based on deals made at midnight in the parking lot, it will be a silent give & take, with no one right out demanding it, and no journalist openly offering it (if they are a bit reputable that is). Hell, if Pimax hand out prototypes in the coming weeks, you will not be surprised if they will prefer to give it to „friendly“ reviewers, will you ? We hope that they will also hand it out to Tested and perhaps Linus again, who appeared to take an objective stance. In the most case these are basic psychological mechanisms and not outright bribery, not people who were lost to the dark side and would consider themselves corrupt. There are a lot of shades of grey this can take, and some may be not even be aware of this influencing them.

But, as has been said here, I do not believe that these mechanisms led to the reviews of the Pimax to be a bit critical; lack of having any ad budget etc. to offer will just not have helped them. The points they are being critized for will likely be fair, and they hopefully are working on getting these corrected.


#30

Truth we often have 2 similar reactions. I will go with the idea you are a responsible Tech Reviewer & not one of the Paid reviewers.

The simple truth is a few bad apples ruins it for the good ones. A perfect example is most are ignorant to Chinese Mfgr due to over the years Irresponsible media shining the spotlight only on Knock off manufacturing making it appear that “all” are crooked. Meanwhile some of these same folk own Iphones & such all mfg in China.

I do appreciate your passion & I am sure we may have met. Yes it is wrong to colour all media bigs with corrupt practises & contrary to folks beleifs the number of bad is smaller than ppl realize.

Btw - the article you linked… I wonder if that was related to what happened with the Privatization if the islandic banks as detailed in “Inside Job”


#31

Got to the part saying you did not try the v5 but then going on to say that “big websites” that did try the v5 are probably sponsored, so in a nutshell you are insinuating they are biased. Well, yes. Maybe but then the review was not all made up BS in an attempt to kill them off either.

RoadToVR imo gave a neutral view. Issues here, here and here. No sugar coating to appease the backers, just the facts from a industry expert that knows what to look for more than your average Jo. At the end of the day Issues are issues and it needs industry pressure to make sure that Pimax do not just sweep things under the carpet because everybody loves the little guy or has invested in them.

I want Pimax to succeed myself and I certainly want RoadToVR’s perfectionist standards to be on their case too. The end result will be a better product.


#32

I agree RoadtoVR on some things could have maybe did a better job.

However in an early video of the v2; i believe Ben complimented them on there progress since v1.

Ben’s review imho if the v5 was more than reasonable & he did do a followup based on Xunshu’s report. My only gripe is the constant implication that PiMax called it 8k to create confusion.

While I agree they shouldn’t have use 8k as an 8k TV is false advertising. 7680 is no where close to 8k. The 5k doesn’t seem to get that disclaimer; but in truth unlike the 8k it does have min 5000 wide & thus is correct to call it 5k VR. Even though it would also be half of 5k TV.


#33

Are u serious?

Do you want me to post some emails and stuff from sony pictures hack and show you the shit sony and other corporations do to bullshit buyers and competitors around ? Do u want me to post emails from a corporartion like sony to people in media paid to write at command what needs to be written convenient for sony or other corporations.

Listen, make you and the companies u endorse a favor, disappear, because u are all a bunch of frauds

I will post all the emails from sony hack that expose sony (and same as sony all the corporations as sony) and their shit. I have more than what wikileaks have got.

Try me


#34

He already stated the example you posted was Sony. Sony’s shady practises is well known. From being caught loading Audio & game media with Viruses & rootkits to the movie industry scandals.

Pumcy is merely pointing out that ppl are jumping the gun without proof. & in that he is correct. Flinging accusations against a broad group due to actions of a few is wrong. Consider if you will if we were focused on your profession & insinuating that you & those in your profession are crooks simply because you work for a big firm.

Sure RoadtoVR gave Vive Pro a good review; its easier to improve existing tech then it is to make something new. Ultra FoV headsets is new; all the Vive Pro is is a mild bump.

If you can post conclusive Proof that Rd2VR or any are accepting kickbacks then post Apples. While Sony is still fruit its not an Apple.


#35

Fruits and apples?

I am telling you guys, post more of those pimping corporations reviews and call them apples or fruit , based on what is convenient for you all.

Have all the decency to respect the intelligence of honest consumers


#36

Pumcy is simply requesting the same. Not all media bows to the whims of companies like Sony.

Truth I do respect Ben’s conviction in his reports. Even though I do beleive Rd2VR & others should have chosen educating on the 8k issue & @Cdaked actually posted a great pic to showcase the Aspect Ratios. & Imho considering at Ces Pimax was setting up 3 booths & had technical trouble on day 1. That a follow up visit should have been in order.

But in fairness Ben did a follow up article helping to spread Xunshu’s report.


#37

Who is honest?

Who is comparing prototypes (pimax looking for feedback) , with final products (vive pro or else) ready to be sold ?

Who is passing mere improvements of a same vr headset , as “groundbreaking innovations in VR” that “set the bars up” in vr?

Who do u think is going to take these things seriously?

Maybe only people that have no fucking clue whatsoever of VR and it is after buying the 1st headset in his/her life , trusting reviews meant to have the new vr products sold to a person with no knowledge and easy to fool around


#38

It would be naïve to think biases don’t exist in VR coverage as in any other coverage, to some extent. -BUT -In the case of CES , the coverage wasn’t popular but it was honest and the issues reported were acknowledged by Pimax here, on Reddit, Facebook and to RTVR. Kinda hard to call a foul on what was reported. I would have been upset if they had tried to sugar coat the experience.


#39

The times each headset/Manufacturer has been mentioned on RoadtoVR since Nov. 1st 2017

Vive - 443
Oculus - 334
PSVR - 299
Pimax - 45

Now there may be some duplicates in there… but it’s still a very big bias towards the big 3 manufacturers.

Take it with a pinch of salt.

And this was a really crude way of counting (wget and word search the content)


#40

Guys, seriously ?!

C’mon, I want Pimax to succeed too, but aren’t we entering the twilight zone of conspiracy theories just a notch too far here ?!

If you count the mentions of the companies and come to the conclusion, that the big three have been mentioned more frequently - err… I hardly know where to start… don’t you think that having hundreds of thousands headsets out there with the people, being the three companies who lead the charge for VR has just a tiny impact on the frequency of having something interesting to report about them ? C’mon, give me a break! That doesn‘t need a pinch of salt, rather cover it completely in salt and add another ton of salt for good measure…


#41

even if… why should the press give more space to something not available? If I were a consumer seeking for a new headset tomorrow I would want some reviews to real products available now ( or very soon) in my preferred stored made by the leading companies not the Pimax 8K. and then after maybe some innovative niche products not the other way around

I really see no conspiracy here, the press was favorable to Pimax at CES 2017, they rush a demo for the CES 2018 got bad press reviews. nothing more nothing less…


#42

I think suggesting that the big VR websites reported big problems with v5 that weren’t there before because they are biased by sponsorship, is creating a huge conspiracy from nothing, because we know v5 had big problems. Pimax admitted it, and told us exactly what happened, and then officially delayed the Kickstarter shipping to deal with it. At the last minute they added three additional LED backlights per eye, to deal with earlier prototype complaints about the image being a bit dim, and those lights ate up too much of the USB power, causing the tracking sensors to not get enough power so they weren’t as reliable, and the extra light in the system highlighted bits in the optics that weren’t visible before, causing visual artifacts.