[Pimax 11th Mar Updated]Suggestions for Pimax

pimax-official

#101

@raeldor
@TheIronWolf
@Skaales

We are working on design new face foam for protecting nose and suitable distance between glasses and lens


#102

This is great news. If you need anyone to help test I’d be happy to volunteer my big nose. :rofl:


#103

Under “Resolved” on the spreadsheet it shows controllers listed as coming in Q3 2019… WITHOUT Capsense. Did I miss the discussion where Capsense was dropped? Or am I misunderstanding something?


#104

Joke right with experienced sw engineers in the US right? I mean - you import most of them now days and frankly the SteamVR software is a joke and an insult to traditions before it with regards to hardware settings and options available. I prefer to use PiTool and launch my VR titles directly from there with the occasion launching SteamVR from there as well if I need to experiment with render targets.

Most people get thjis weird notion that lens distortion profiles are applied post GPU rendering - guess what - they aren’t, they are part of the geometry instructions fed to the GPU along with the game data for the GPU to render together and then bump up the line to the headset displays.

the last part of the line in processing is the GPU, no different to any other computer 3D accelerated based processing with a screen attached. There is no back and fro-ing between the CPU and GPU with visual processing or else there would be hideous lag and bottlenecking.

There needs to be a better interface either a rewrite of SteamVR or something independent that puts logic back into the settings of headset render target resolutions and something that doesn’t take out inputs - tells us one thing and then decide it is too much and bumps the target resolution down anyway.


#105

The main problem in having so many headsets and so many proprietary drivers is that VR is becoming increasingly fragmented and difficult to program for…
So, until a way to standarize or use a common platform is agreed or created, it only gets worse for US…the final users.
But I inderstand Pimax is a loner here…


#106

There are chances that Khronos will announce the finalized OpenXR standard at the GDC2019 this month…could change many things in VR, let’s hope this time will happen.


#107

@Dallas.Hao @Matthew.Xu @Sean.Huang @Doman.Chen @Alan.sun @PimaxVR @PimaxUSA @Pimax-Support

Suggestions for Pimax

Important revisions, listed in order of importance:

  1. Less fov lenses suitable for smaller IPD users and 150 fov with less edge distortion would be a great thing, just cut off the near useless and heavily distorted edges of the Pimax lenses where there is no sweet spot and bang theres another extra 10-20mm IPD range, to solve issues for users who can’t use pimax due to eyestrain and not being able to get a clear image in each eye from having too small IPD and being unable to use Pimax’s larger minimal IPD range.

  2. Better quality audio inputs and video cables, quality testing for them and better soldering jobs and better quality input connectors for those components.

  3. Change software to allow manual individual IPD setting to each eye from the one IPD adjustment knob or even just in pitool would be a great software addition for pitool, to reducing eye strain for users who cant get a clear image in each eye, who need differing IPD values for each eye due to asymmetrical faces.

  4. Fixing the IPD slider in software to report correct physical IPD measurements and hardware IPD measurements, and make a graphical tool to assist in setting IPD like Oculus rift has.

  5. Pitool settings profile saver for each game, for easier plug and play functionality.

  6. Autodetect to enable parralel projections if required or automatic settings for brainwarp and parralel projections to be enabled for each game unless turned off, to improve compatibility and performance.

  7. The much requested colour options - for contrast/saturation/ gamma/sharpness settings, even make colour profiles for gaming, movies, dark content, etc which are different variations of the above colour settings for the less tech savvy users, would make the 5k+ have a better selling point for those concerned about washed out colours.

  8. DAS with vertical up/down and in/out adjustment, joined at the top of the 5k/8k headsets to the DAS on a lowering/raising hinge like PSVR, to allow for better facial positioning of the HMDS.

  9. Distortion correction profiles for different FOVs and different IPD ranges.

  10. New facial foam to better address distortions and head and nose comfort.

  11. Controllers without a large tracking ring that wraps around the wrists, but a downward donut oculus touch styled tracking ring or valve knuckles controller styled, non intrusive tracking ring.

  12. Anti-SDE solution and 5k+ and 8k models offered with Anti-SDE solution (Same as Samsung Oddesey+), called 5k+ Pro and 8k Pro. Original headsets can be upgraded at a cost at the same time if/when sent in for low IPD/150 fov lens replacement.

  13. An 8k+ or 8K XR Model with 80/90hz 5" full rgb 4k oled screens when they’re available to order and produce.

The IPD issues identified are as follows:

  1. Minimum physical IPD amount on each headset is not minimum 55mm, it varies from 55mm-60mm headset to headset.
    (whether this issue is a result of minor physical discrepancies between each headset affecting minimim IPD measurement slightly and caused by manufacturing differences in lenses and production, or if it’s caused by software issues reporting incorrect IPD measurements is yet to be seen.)

  2. IPD software measurement shown on display when the IPD wheel is adjusted on the headset is around 3mm-10mm off to the actual physical IPD measurement.

  3. Some headsets have discrepencies/inconsistent and incorrect values between the measurements on the IPD adjustment wheel on the headset and the measurement shown on the display when the IPD wheel is adjusted.

As for eye strain, maybe fixing the above mentioned IPD issues by offering a paid lens replacement if its required will fix the eye strain problems for many if its not resolveable by software changes of the IPD reading.

Possible causes as to why correct IPD measurements do not work on Pimax headsets, when they work on the Vive and Oculus:

1. Correct minimal physical lens distance measurement (physically 55mm apart), but incorrect software reading.
Assuming the software IPD readings pitool gives are often incorrect and the actual physical minimum IPD on the headset hardware is in fact 55mm, someone whos minimum IPD measurement is 60mm on pitool might need to add an additional 5mm more than the (perceived correct and optometrist measured) IPD measurement given on screen, whereas if it says 58mm minimum then an additional 3mm to real IPD measurement might need to be added.
That’s complete conjecture though to try and explain this and needs to be tested.

2. Incorrect physical lens measurement (not 55mm, but rather closer to 60-65mm), and incorrect software reading (reporting less than it is).
It could also be the other way around, that the minimum physical IPD setting possible by adjusting headset hardware is not 55mm, and it is in fact 60-65mm physical minimum IPD between both lenses, and the software reports a lesser reading to what the physical lens IPD measurement is, and that may account for the discrepancy between software IPD readings in pitool and physical IPD measurements not aligning, because software reports that the IPD is less than it actually is, and the reason why 3-10mm must be added in Pitool for an accurate IPD.

Solution for IPD discrepancy/Eye strain:
Offer backers solution for 150 FOV lens replacements to fix IPD issues, available for purchase by sending in to Pimax office for $100 upgrade lens/lens adapter at the cost of the backer, or using the $100 voucher if the backer has one. Also allow setting of IPD of each eye in software, for those with asymmetrical faces.


#108

Documentation. Provide example of what the different settings actually do such as brainwarp settings, hidden mask etc.

  • Provide a detailed description
  • Show game compatibility
  • Recommend combinations and best practices. example: if using hidden mask, don’t use PP.

Everything currently is a trial and error process. That needs to change quickly if you want to expand beyond the hardcore market especially at the price points you have.


#109

People with HMDs make a number of suggestions.But if you don’t get HMD, the only thing they can say is shipping.


#110

Most people probably get this weird notion because it is the correct one :wink:


#111

From GDC Vault - Valve explaining VR

Take note of where distortion profiles are applied in the pipeline in relation to the GPU rendering and then displaying on the headset.

Have a look from the timing section

GPU to Panel. Render to Screen. The Distortion Profile is a Render Mesh processed by the GPU but it is a part of Rendering Process on the GPU


#112

While the video may suggest otherwise it is already four years old and clearly from the time before the consumer headsets were released.

How it works today you can see on your Pimax. OpenVR lets the application render the stereo images and then lets the Pimax software to apply pre-lens warp.

This pre-lens warp transformation is also computed on the GPU, but is not part of the scene rendering by the app.


#113

I hope some of the Pimax engineers will be present at next week’s GDC 2019 , there is strong chance that Khronos Group will show the finalized OpenXR standard and libraries, plus many more important things related to VR…


#114

What i miss the most is that nothing get turned off, like lighthouses, controllers, headset, you have to manually turn Everything off.


#115

But the lens warp profile is part of the rendering pipeline which is co-ordinated by OpenVR. Also the final Render Target Resolution as presented by SteamVR - should correspond to the native resolution of the screens in the VR headset for “best” image quality/output.

The suggested Res by SteamVR is the final Res as sent post Render/Lens Distortion Profile/ Super Sampling and is what is displayed on the VR Headset.

The only thing, and I mean only other thing that alters this is with the UpScaler Chip in the 8K Headset and that in itself can add issues pertaining to aliasing artifacts. I would assume PiTool is letting OpenVR know the limitations of signal transmission as part of the general telling the game engine the render target to aim for pre SS and Lens Distortion but it would seem info is not quite clear on this or the Pimax Magic Soup

With regard to render targets and native screen resolutions - we should be careful as aliased artifacts are more amplified on VR headsets due to the scaling the lenses introduce and the pixel density per degree compared to 2D monitors. SuperSampling helps but would it not be best practice to work in factors that suit the native resolution of the headset displays rather than any old factor??


#116

The recommended render target resolution which is presented by OpenVR (and visible in SteamVR) has no direct relation to the panel hardware resolution. It does not have to be in any particular factor either. It is just a quality setting which OpenVR uses to give the hint to the app.


#117

“risa2000
recommended render target resolution which is presented by OpenVR (and visible in SteamVR) has no direct relation to the panel hardware resolution. It does not have to be in any particular factor either. It is just a quality setting which OpenVR uses to give the hint to the app.”

And thus, why we have people complaining about image quality and blurring when they use abstract settings with no correlation to the PHYSICAL capabilities of their HMD Displays.

Go figure

Just a nail or speed bump in the road to VR adoption due to ignorance of display panel capabilities and their utilisation in a VR headset which is really just a screen or 2 in front of a persons face with a lense. So be it. I’m out or trying to explain basic panel physics and image capabilities to bricks.


#118

It depends on how the game is programed.

Steam’s screenshot process was used in the past to demonstrate when set up right.

It would give 3 pics.
1st pic unmodified Game pic
2nd Seperated as 2 per eye
3rd Transformed…


#119

This is no different than other headsets. With Steam supporting multiple headsets the headset manufacturer handshakes based target res based on what they report.


#120

Does Pimax consider using MicroLed panels in the future and if yes, would they be interested to make available (with a price of course) the upgrade of the current 5k+ & 8K HMD panels ? (Would probably have to change the hardware as the signal might not be the same type in the future)