Pimax 31/05/2018 update: M1 units have left the building


#203

Just imagine how Martin (Sweviver) must be waiting in the agony of anticipation these hours… the 8K arriving any day… not really having any clue how good it will be after all the hype, the great yet completely controlled environment try-out of the V2…
when we know ours is being shipped, we will have a much better understanding of what to expect due to the reviews having been made public at the time.
But for Martin - it‘s the box of chocolates Forrest was referring to…


#204

And yet, I envy him! :smiley:


#205

If they report that everything is great and then when the HMD is released and it’s not that great, people will get angry at them. Probably rightly so because they messed it up for everybody. But if they report that everything is not that great at all and the HMD needs tweaking/changes, then some people will get angry too cause they don’t like bad news/delay’s and/or will feel the need to attack anyone who dares to criticize a Pimax product. That and people will send tons of pm’s, beg for info etc, not sure a position to envy.


#206

And yet, I do. :slight_smile:

I think it will be pretty good with a few rough edges. We’ll see if I’m overly optimistic. It’s the suspense that’s “killing me”.


#207

Well, Pimax has set the bar very high for themselves, by saying they felt very confident about the current version. But who knows, in the past with the Pimax 4k they spoke highly of future software versions and when they were released they sometimes didn’t even work at all. So I really don’t know what to expect, also because we haven’t had any info since V5, but hoping they release a Vive/Oculus/Odyssey killer!


#208

Do you think pimax released them to the testers with the exception that they need to understand that x, y, and z still needs work/development… so they shouldn’t focus on those areas, which may take more time to develop after testing.

Effectively sending out test units to keep us backers happy?


#209

anything is possible, but no need to get worried about “what ifs” we will know where things are soon enough


#210

Might have been cheaper for them to have worked with Nikon or Canon engineers on the lens development. Wouldn’t have required all those iterations.


#211

You forgot to add. 80Hz at 200 degrees makes you barf at every turn. That could be a showstopper.

The wider the FOV, the more sensitive we become to motion.

It took me a few weeks to get used to E:D SRV tumbling with only 100° FOV @ 90Hz in the oculus.

200@80 is likely to be far, far more barf inducing.


#212

I doubt you’ll get that info. We are all seasoned VR gamers here. SRV tumbling does not affect me at all anymore. I can do that all day.
You’d have to put the 8K into the hands of someone new to VR to check that out.


#213

Motion sickness is a funny thing. I found the ED SRV to be highly nauseating in 2D. I had much less of a problem when I switched to a 3D monitor (using NVidia’s LCD shutter glasses). Eventually, I got used to it and can now play in 2D.

I’ve seen some articles that claim a wider FOV should reduce motion sickness. We’ll find out the truth fairly soon.


#214

As a person who owns a Oculus and 4k and has clocked over 2000 hours in ED… I can honestly say that in the Oculus… Even looking left or right while driving the SRV I felt the vomit comet, but in the 4k nothing. The Oculus was a constant 90 and the pimax 60. So it’s not all about fps

Eno


#215

People don’t want to hear that :hear_no_evil: :speak_no_evil: :see_no_evil:

I read a white paper once where the military / RAF were looking into their own simulators, not the cockpit ones but HMD ones and they determined that any FOV higher than 150-160 had a sharp increase in fatigue and sickness over shorter time periods, e.g. 15 mins max. Now there could have been a gazillion reasons why like low frame rate and old display tech as this paper was a few years old. I wish I could find it again, it was an online PDF with quite a lot of formulas and statistics to back up the research.

So, until I find the paper it’s just my ramblings.

Oculus, HTC, Sony and Microsoft all seem to keep FOV fairly low and improve other aspects like pixel density. Why? They have vastly more resources to prototype a 210 FOV HMD, maybe they have and decided it’s more health hazard and not future proofing their product line.

Please don’t read this as a doom mongering post, the intention here is to see patterns, risk, challenge and hope I am wrong in this assessment.

Anyway, we won’t know until after this testing week if Pimax have pulled a rabbit out the hat. People have backed a concept, a list of goals. I would love nothing more than to show the big boys that it CAN BE DONE! Then all hell will break loose as who would buy any other headset if they are ALL inferior to the Pimax visual experience. They would get swamped with orders and the backers can be proud they backed a winning horse.

This could be a Pioneer KURO moment :smiley:


#216

I don’t want to spoil the party but isn’t the most obvious reason for any manufacturer to stick to the lower FoV that you only have a pretty limited resolution to play with, and adding 50° of FoV on the outer rim of your peripheral vision costs you resolution in the more central areas where all of us still are ‘enjoying’ the ability to count every single pixel ? There could be more reasons, sure, but this fact of them keeping it to lower FoV’s is hardly compelling evidence for nausea problems caused by the wider FoV - unless there is more information on that being cited by them as a reason for it.

I would probably gladly trade anything beyond 150° FoV easily for applying that extra resolution of the same display to the enhance the details within the 150°, but I accept that this is not the concept Pimax chose for. Of course it will be nice to have such wide coverage, and at least the SDE is going to almost disappear, which is already a big step up from the Rift & Vive, so I am still very excited for the 8K. But if given the choice, I would have opted for the 6K of the Pimax displays on 150°.

And that with no consideration at all to the alleged displeasure with larger FoV. I guess it doesn’t mean much, but when I tried the 8K V2 for my 5-10 minute stint, I felt no signs of nausea whatsoever - and I am a person who still absolutely needs the horizon lock on the Elite SRV’s, and even with that activated I do sometimes notice that the SRV rides are not completely harmless to my stomach.

However, we just need to wait for another two weeks or so and should then learn much more. :slight_smile:


#217

Isn’t pewdiepie not too far from there? Ever run into him?


#218

i thought pewds lived in london for some reason.


#219

Not only that, they know well that if they took this path, they would have to sooner or later reveal hidden details on the displays that would put them in an impossible position, that of having to reveal details about technologies that can not yet be revealed and that have been classified into military studies.

Military studies like the one you saw are known in certain environments, and now very dated, such as those of wide-angle displays for commercial and military flight simulators.

Pimax must be very courageous to go into this market first, or perhaps just naive and not aware of certain repercussions that might come up against.

This is why I admire them anyway :grinning:


#220

I think it’s mostly a business decision. Look how well the “Chinese Oculus Go” (the Xiaomi Mi VR) is already selling, 50.000 units sold in a few minutes: https://www.roadtovr.com/china-oculus-go-xiaomi-mi-vr-standalone-sold-out-in-minutes-with-50000-wait-more-stock/

So clearly people want cheap ass VR. The high end is merely a small niche market, that’s not where the big money is. I think that’s at least part of the reason that Pimax is almost alone in this niche.


#221

“You forgot to add. 80Hz at 200 degrees makes you barf at every turn. That could be a showstopper.”

Except that I don’t recall anybody who tried the earlier versions of the 8K headset saying anything of the sort.


#222

Correct, there’s no reason based on the roadshows to assume so. BUT it might matter that the demo’s were all demo’s where screen movement is coupled to head movement (like the lab), which generally is not very nausea inducing. Well we can only speculate, but since we don’t have any news to discuss, there’s not much else to do here anyway :wink: