Pimax 5k+ first impressions (sjefdeklerk)


#81

I once had P4K, there is no SDE.

Next was the Rift CV1, there is enough SDE for me, along with low resolution.

I had OG Odyssey. SDE was not very comfortable with me there … Although it can be sustained in principle, but with effort … The sharpness is good.
In normal games, SDE does not interfere very much with Odyssey, but in racing on the horizon, SDE catches my eye. In the films, too, there is such an effect of SDE on Odyssey, it hinders.

Then I tried Lenovo Explorer, SDE is more pleasant there, you can live with it. SDE on the horizon is not particularly noticeable already in this headset in racing

I also know that the Oculus GO is a good SDE, better than Lenovo Explorer.

So my hopes were pinned on the SDE level Lenovo Explorer or Oculus GO.
It is a pity that 5K + is still comparable to VivePro / Odyssey.

Therefore, now I want to consider 8K more closely, and it is possible to choose all the same 8K, if on it SDE is better than VivePro / Odyssey :roll_eyes:


#82
  1. No, 5K+ is better in most cases and you will definitely not bother about the very slightly worse SDE. The image just looks better on the 5K+ and if we talk about reading text and menus, the 8K just cannot compete here, as said many times.

  2. The SDE on 5K+ is better than both. Definitely better than my Odyssey which already is slightly better than Lenovo. Also I was never impressed about Oculus Go SDE, I really dont understand how people praise it so much. Last time I tried Oculus Go on VR Days it looked worse than Odyssey and Vive Pro. But thats just my opinion.

  3. Minimal difference. Also 8K has a diagonal SDE which can make things look more jaggy, especially text.

  4. Hard to say. I would say 8K SDE is better than all of them, but the diagonal pixel pattern makes it far from perfect.

All this has been said 1000 times now and I think its pointless to repeat myself again. Nearly everyone recommends the 5K+ over the 8K. And I agree.


#83

Great news, thanks!
So 5K + favorite anyway. It is very happy.

The problem of choice in recent times very absorbs me …

But now I get all the maximum confidence in 5K + :slightly_smiling_face::+1:


#84

So Sjef has given us his opinion on the 5K+ - and it is not completely damning.

I am lost for words. I have been checking the sky around the house for an hour now, no flying pigs. Haven‘t seen any breaking news of a frozen hell either.

How could this happen :wink:

Okay, seriously, I am glad you now see the point some of us, me included, have been trying to make for while now. Of course it will be less than perfect, but what most of the users here, who are gamers, are waiting for is a device which enhances the gaming experience. And that is where the Pimaxes apparently deliver to a very satisfactory degree. If we expected perfection, we will never be satisfied. And looking back in 10 years even a device like the StarVR, which may be even a level above the Pimaxes, will appear awful if compared to what you will be used to at that time.

It‘s just the eternal question with consumer tech - is it good enough to be really enjoyed, is it an upgrade to your experience compared to your current headset. If the answer is yes, it‘s a good product, even if plagued by a number of flaws which you could notice if you wanted to.

And everybody who wants to enjoy such a headset should also think twice about how far they take it to scrutinize every aspect - the problem of not being able to „unsee“ something you wouldn‘t have noticed if not having searched for can decrease your pleasure later-on, so I will try to mainly enjoy mine when it finally arrives rather than try to get scientific with it.

But if even Sjef manages to get pleasure out of it aftr having noticed some of its flaws right-away, it is really quite promising.


#85

But that’s really not the point. Perfection will be technological unavailable for many years to come. That doesn’t mean companies shouldn’t aim for getting as close to possible to perfection. I still think Pimax should do a lot of work on the Pimax 5k, because in its current state it won’t concur the world in my opinion, it’s just too unpolished. Knowing pimax it really is a gamble if they even care. And then one day a competitor will come along, who DOES get everything right and then nobody will talk about Pimax anymore. That’s why I think Pimax should really try, this is their shot at world dominance, they should play their hand well and fix the issue’s. But I’m really not sure if they will.

For me, I already enjoy the pimax 5k+ but I also do realize it can become so much better. That’s always been my point.


#86

I think the biggest point here is that Pimax is definitiely not a fail, which many ppl were assuming. But let’s just put that behind us now and enjoy the day! :slight_smile:


#87

Well that also depends on your perspective. If you ask Oscar ROV, Pumcy or Olivier, they might actually see it closer to a fail than to a success. That’s the thing, if a product is ‘near perfect’, then everybody will simply love it, no doubt that you’d see a very glorious review on RoadToVR. But if Ben from RoadToVR would review it in this state, I really don’t think his review would be very positive. But if you just look at it like you do: “Is it fun to play with”, yes, then you’re totally right and the Pimax 5k+ is a big succes in its current state already.

I’m just really hoping Pimax fixes the remaining issues, there’s just so much untapped potential.


#88

And for the thousandth time my reply: it’s all a question of preferences. As an elite dangerous player, black level and brightness (=contrast ratio) and absense of color banding are so important to me that I will probably stay with the 8k. I will never understand how to use the majority and its preferences as an argument to promote a product. It is about one’s own preferences. Common sense.


#89

And this is what frustrates me with such reviews of journalists - if I am a consumer who wants to improve his VR experience today, and who will have a state of the art rig and is willing to tinker a bit with settings (whch he can get easy advice on from e.g. this forum) without needing any deep technical knowledge, this is a much better offering than if I went for a Rift or a Vive (Pro). Not flawless, it has drawbacks, but all in all it’s giving me more. Full stop.

With such reviews, if they point to the flaws and effectively tell me that I should rather stick/buy (with) the other currently available headsets, I simply feel mislead by such journalists. But okay, now I know what their audience is and I am not pat of it, fine.


#90

Yes it is a nice surprise. Much like seeing you support a review that wasn’t mirroring the youtubers attacking the reviewer as you had in the past.


#91

Both those reviews identified the software was considered in a non ready ready release state to backers in an early access. So no need to be frustrated as they were Early access reviews as identified also by OlivierJT whom you supported.


#92

I though I pointed out all the flaws in my review and follow ups? :thinking:


#93

Interesting comment. I do recall your stance until pretty recently, when apparently something happened changing your almost unconditional support of Pimax :laughing:

But I‘ll let it for what it is and will hope to get my headset in not too distant future, and then I probably will be posting less anyhow as I will be using the headset rather than typing posts… cheers.


#94

Truth my stance never really changed. I just see the merits of all the reviews to date both perceived good or bad. As what @sjefdeklerk said.

Pimax stated that Wide FoV comes with it’s own compromises.

The real hard part is controlling passions. When we overreact to reviews we give credence to things like Heaney’s UploadVR article calling us a Fan boy cult.

Some once they receive the headset are likely going to knock it quite a bit just over the fact it’s not Oled. Or other things that require us to adapt to much like with Gen1 headsets.

For example we do now have more freedom of eye movement than gen1 but perhaps not complete freedom. But it’s a good start in that direction. We are finding some limits that may or may not be fixed by software.

The software while not there yet has demonstrated in a lot of areas drastic improvements. But in others some serious hiccups ie Light House setup issues; geo distortions on the edges causing warps.

Game side where perhaps the game dev has not called can item to render as typically this would be off screen & out of view.

Evidence that some titles may not be supporting the FoV & might be forced with stretching. Which fits the statement “Not to worry we will make it work”

The software can now be ran more with default settings with less tweaking that was heavily needed in earlier iterations.

We know that originally the 980ti completely failed to be able to run these headsets. Now we are having different results. That even my decrepit r9 390 can run somethings well (but I don’t reccommend it). Ludx testing & having good success on the 1060 6g. Demonstrating the coding is gaining efficiency as it matures.

Until we have a full release review often things will be hit & miss in Early adopter reviews.

How we react & treat folks is paramount for establishing this brand as something folks want to check out.

Much like in respect when Linux zealots jumped all over a girl when she bought a dell computer for college & dell did not do a good job on selling it with proper info.


#95

But I’m not sure if that’s always true. For example @evertec likes his Odyssey+ more than his Pimax HMD’s. And another example, is that I think that if adult movies are your thing (let’s face it, consumer VR is mainly used for gaming and porn), the Vive Pro might be a better choice than the Pimax 5k+. People are different so I think it’s hard to say “because I like Skyrim more on the Pimax 5k+, this is the HMD to buy, even though it has all these flaws”. But I get your point, just pointing out the weaknesses (and strengths) also doesn’t tell the whole story. It’s complicated to do a fair review that makes everybody happy, I think, especially when a product has a really big plus (the FoV) but also some serious drawbacks. Let’s just hope Pimax can fix those, then reviewing it will become easier too :wink:


#96

It may not be true for all, sure. I admit that I am talking primarily from a gamer’s point of view, and e.g. porn may be a different story (this is the use which has not impressed me overly with VR - I think I will only start to find it truly compelling and different to regular 2D video when we get volumetric, high quality roomscale VR porn scenes - which will be a long shot from today).

Perhaps I am assuming wrongly but I would think that most of the backers are simply gamers. If I am erring here, then indeed the requirements as to what is considered to be essential and what not may be quite different, and other headsets may take the lead for various reasons.

Looking at evertec‘s comments, who would seem to fit the gamer label, his point seems to be based on the not so great reprojection performance of the Pimax with roomscale environments, while he acknowledges that other scenario‘s may see the Pimax lead. While I get that this is a downside, but the good thing about it is of course that this will get better the more GPU horsepower we get, i.e. if we don‘t need reprojection to save the day.

Of course Pimax would be well advised to improve the 5K+ to address the remaining weaknesses, and I am really curious to see what my 8K(x) pledge will end up delivering to me. But while I guess the history of the 4K shows that while they will maintain their efforts we shouldn‘t expect miracles. It will never have the polish of a Rift, it will likely always remain a bit of a work in progress. As long as I with my limited technical abilities can get it to work, with the help of the forum, I am happy with it. If the same offering came from Oculus, I would be disappointed that they didn‘t give it better polish, so I admit to be applying different standards to a degree. But this is only because I am glad that a company with limited means does me the favour to provide me a raw version of next gen while the others are polishing their prototypes leaving me with the „old shit“ for another year…


#97

I mean, when SJEF out of all people says they actually prefer and love playing a game with the pimax more than any other headset, you KNOW you’ve made the right choice by backing this project :joy::joy: honestly really surprised and glad that it’s turned out like this. Glad you actually enjoy it even with its flaws @sjefdeklerk

However, it is quite worrying that none of the other reviewers on the forum, the three vr musketeer testers, and ALL the people who went to the Germany and America road shows these last two months didn’t say ANYTHING about geometric distortions…why? With the way Sjef is describing it seems like a really big and annoying issue, so how come no one else has reported it? This is genuinely worrying me…


#98

@fresco & I have mentioned it as warping & such. @oscar_rov mentions it in his review. Just “how” distracting will be individual. For me it’s there but to really notice it am strainings eyes either left or right.

But like the god rays Seb never really mentioned it til his final score of the 5k+ being there.


#99

But sjef says he sees the “geometric distortions” in the center no? You see it only at the outer edge. Correct?


#100

Yes. But he might have a greater sensitivity to what he sees.

There is an overlap where you go from tge round part of the lens to the flat. This might be where he is noticing a geo warp distortion at a guess.