Pimax 8KX Vision / 8K+ Vision upgrade program for KS backers details and trade-in program

suggestions

#103

@Sofian: You’ll be asked by Valve to pay 159€ per LH basestation, making it 318€, and 299€ for the Index controllers, totalling 617€.

Pimax assumed that what Valve said at the time (a LH2.0 basestation being half the price of LH1.0 basestations, something around 60€) would be the price Valve would charge Pimax for them. Boy, were they wrong, Valve completely changed its approach to making Lighthouse tracking openly & reasonably priced available to many licensees etc…

Looking at my package, I do believe that I will have made a pretty good deal with the KS campaign at the end. The controllers were the one item I was sure would either suck or be delayed, because Valve Knuckles were already proving to be a difficult development, so there were the signs on the wall. I still backed them because the 300$ package meant that if I just got the basestations out of it it would seem okay-ish, and you have the upside of the controllers possibly being good after all.


#104

We paid 300, now they are asking 179 for the index controllers.
Then there are the people who like me bought a vive to be able to use their headset.
By the time I get my LH/controllers the resale value of the vive will have dropped and I will lose an additional $50/100…

So no I don’t think it was such a good deal, and certainly not half the price.


#105

What‘s your point ??

You asked for the math, and I gave it to you. That‘s a pretty straight-forward calculation.

If your point is that you expect Pimax to offer you the Index controllers Valve sells for 299$ for no additional charge, while Pimax only got one dollar more from you and you expect them at the same time to ship you the lighthouse basestations in addition, well, then you are clearly not somebody working in an environment where you learn to think commercially.

Pimax just suggested this as an alternatve. You are absolutely free to ignore it ande wait for the controllers.

I myself got annoyed why it took so long until we get the basestations because these are generally available for a while - at least we assume they are, not knowing what for a show Valve pulled of behnd the screens. But controllers, well, as I mentioned elsewhere, did not expect these to really be anything great, and still doubt they will compete with the Index or Touch controllers. Pimax can‘t do it all in good quality, they’d better focus on the headsets.


#106

Valve originally advertised selling Lighthouse modules to OEMs at $59us. So the KS price was based on Valve’s original OEM price scheme. Valve hiked up base price to OEMs & strangled supply.


#107

Look around. I have seen Wands under $100 used. Or buy v2.0 tracking pucks.


#108

Retail price that pimax told us for 2 controllers and two base stations is aprprox 600


#109

you see its in pimax best interest that we give up our full package towards the vision

This is why I’ll probably keep mine.

This is why during the kickstarter I never understood why they made promises based off another company’s Tech, that was incomplete at that.

If you pay attention to the tested preview it was pretty obvious that pimax intention was to sell 1.0 base stations and Vive like controllers, but Norm kind of asked questions and he just said yes to everything causing confusion.

I feel they are teying to pull a bit of a fast one on us, if they are asking us to give up our controllers and basestations for kickstarter cost, but the backer deal isnt going to drop the visions to kickstarter prices.


#110

Well, they are giving us options, not too much wrong about that.

Using another company’s tech is pretty standard, you’d be surprised to learn how many 3rd party products you will find in any given commodity. If you break down the 5K+ or 8K, what will you find ? All semiconductors are 3rd party tech. The displays are of course 3rd party tech. And so on. Save for the housing itself, probably everything is 3rd party components.

The issue they apparently encountered is that they took Valve’s public announcements at face value of making the lighthouse tracking openly available to 3rd party licensees at very reasonable conditions (which made sense given the Steam(VR) software platform is a money printing machine which Valve surely intended to set as standard for most VR applications).

It turns out, Valve changed their mind, which also showed with HTC having immense difficulties to deliver LH2.0 base stations, and for quite a while you could not purchase them stand-alone but only as part of a Vive pro kit.

I am not sure there is much Pimax could do - that must have been surprising and Valve’s license/OEM agreement with Pimax, if it was even signed at that time, probably gave Valve all kinds of options to mess around. Valve is sole source for lighthouse tracking IPR, and Pimax is a small insignificant company in the grander scheme of things. No leverage whatsoever for them in negotiations with Valve.


#111

Because he acts in the interests of Pimax.
This is a programmed action package, unfortunately)
Not more.
It’s just not enough for more.


#112

Not true on the v1.0 LHes & Tracking. Pimax discussed this within the existing community. Pimax made the decision to go with V2 tracking system. We in the community not understanding things fully had presumed Valve Tracking not only gave basics to implement tracking but also gave specs for making Lighthouses.

Valve used to charge $5k per seminar or 2 to be able to use Steamvr Tracking. Later on they had made tracking part free; but seems they likely realized more money is selling lighthouse modules. First advertised how V2.0 LHes would be more reliable & cheaper to manufacture & could sell Oems LH v2.0 for $59ea to be rebranded. This price changed & conditions of supply & sale altered. HTC forums support confirmed Valve had full control; after many Pre Order Vive Pro & Vive Pro owners were raging about not being able to buy LHes v2.0 individually.

After Index release the LH conditions have been lifted as Valve has ensured Index smooth launch.

The vive like controller with thumbstick was a design since long before the kickstarter. Pimax had decided to go with Knuckles style controllers either just before KS via community feedback.


#113

Agreed as part of the community prior to the KS we encouraged pimax to go with SteamVR tracking as it was a proven system & Valve had at that time started to market it’s VR dev kits and seemed to want more 3rdparties making SteamVR headsets.

With LG dropping steamvr project it seems & SteamVR headset dev kits not working out. And Valve’s LH v2.0 issues. I don’t think any companies will be in a hurry to rely on tethering into Steamvr tracking without having another option.

Hence why Vive Cosmos by default does not come with Steam tracking by default & only coming as an optional add on sometime in 2020.


#114

Is there anyone that has an email to contact PIMAX to ask about my specific case as backer #1420 .

I am so confused in understand what I would be entitled to for backing PIMAX 8k and 8kx with 1’715 dollars ?

I have sent an email to support@pimaxvr.com but I am still waiting for a reply.

Thanks


#115

Pimax is on a week holiday. I would wait til the end of this week & send @Matthew.Xu a private message with your questions.


#116

Thank you so much! U are always on top of things :slight_smile:


#117

I still think that going with Valve lighthouses was the right decision, because from what I have read about Windows MR headsets camera tracking, it looks like they are sill inferior to the lighthouses. I understand the ease of use factor, but for a high-end headset (which Pimax claims to be), the lighthouses are an adequate solution.

I also believe that having only Pimax, maybe HTC and possibly Xtal using LH tracking it is also in Valve’s interest to promote this solution and do not jeopardize its relation with its partners, because if they do, they may eventually end up being alone with the lighthouses and left to an extinction eventually.

While with having several different manufacturers supporting it you can buy the tracking with for example Pimax, and then jump into Valve Index (without rebuying the whole system) or vice versa.

Which is also the reason why I believe that Pimax surcharge on the controller swap is not Valve’s doing, but Pimax attempt to recover some money they are losing elsewhere.


#118

He’s a bot - no way anybody could be following the forum that closely & posting that much… :wink:


#119

Good info, Im a post kickstarter guy. So in a way this steamVR fiasco is the backers fault? LOL… JK.
I see valve are really screwing everyone over. VERY SHADY that they were double dealing knowing that the wanted to release their own headset.

Selling stock to 3rd parties but keeping the best for yourself and not telling them that they were in competition as well as jacking the price . Why doesnt pimax sue, i feel like what Valve did here has to illegal.


#120

Can u imagine they went with oculus insight and that the rift S was actually the pimax?


#121

It’s a hard position to be in. Yes pimax could have a case. But how long would it take to resolve? Meanwhile their product remains partially crippled in terms of a key componet for tracking. Plus Valve could simply make small changes to SteamVR hindering pimax headsets from working correctly. MS did this to 3rdparty Web browsers at one time. Sure Netscape won several cases against microsoft but they almost faded away.

Sometimes you need to deal & compromise than choose to fight & risk loosing more than you’d gain.


#122

Glad they didn’t do that steam vr LH is way better to the point oculus dumped the idea themselves. I have had almost zero issues with LH technology.