Please clarify "We are now at the hardware mass production stage"


#121

Okay, folks: roll call to all of you to come up with the use case you envisage to apply the 8K to which you believe is least likely to be something anybody else will want to do with the 8K ?
[edited]


#122

Well, can’t completely agree to this:

@Plug&Play:
I had installation “problems” only with my first 4K, since it was described nowhere that it had to be connected mandatory to the HMDI-port #1. That took me a lot of time to find that out. Then, adjusting the IPD via software was a bit of trial & error, but worked well in the end.
My second 4K then was - due to my experiences - more or less simple plug&play.
So, yes, might be, that the Vive behaves a bit more comfortable there. But remembering my trials with the Rift DV2 and CV1, first start-up also took up to 10-15 minutes including live download and installation of that huge driver and software I never needed to that extent.
So, 4K-startup could have been a bit more comfortable especially concerning that HDMI-port-aspect - but apart from this, no major problems at all.

Therefore, I don’t expect the 8K to be any worse in this context, but in the contrary, to be more or less simple plug&play. Then adjusting once IPD, either via handwheel or via software (as early adopter/backer/receiver, I could live with both solutions since I am the only one using it), adjusting a couple of other things, once -, and then, run SteamVR and let the fun begin :sunglasses: Pimax certainly will have learned a couple of things in the past years, and the 4K-software already now is a lot better than it formerly was.

@Gaming without controllers:
I disagree completely here since it depends on what you are playing:
I’m playing only cockpit simulations and RPG’s - so I have all the controllers I need already connected: Keyboard, mouse, joystick, wheel, shifter. Yes, of course, meanwhile I’d like to have some VR-controllers, too, for a couple of games such as Apollo 11 VR, GoogleEarth VR, Spacetours VR or Ocean Rift which do require them. But there are quite a lot of games for VR or adapted for VR which do work with “standard PC input controllers”.
So, I don’t think one can say that the 4K is useless for gaming without native VR-controllers. Absolutely wrong here.

Of course, display panel alone is not the whole story.

But already with its display panel, the 4K does behave quite a lot better in this context than top dogs such as the Rift or the Vive do - for gaming, depending on the games. From my point of view, for cockpit sim’s and RPG’s, the 4K is far better than any Rift or Vive at the moment, although it is certainly still far from being perfect, without any doubt.

That’s why I am waiting so impatiently for the 8K to be shipped :grin:


#123

This actually is a bit painful to admit: yes, the Rift CV is plug & play per default - but if we are honest it is not once you decide to go roomscale and connect 3 sensors. The chances that you have to go through some loops of trial & error to figure out the proper USB port allocation, and possibly buy an Inateck USB 3.0 card does put a bit of shade on the otherwise great polish of the Rift. And I at some stage last year had issues with black screens where I had to use a DPI adapter because it would no longer work with my HDMI port. Now guess what - two weeks ago I had other issues (yet again resulting in black outs) and I got a replacement unit (although being out of warranty - kudos to Oculus for that !). I was shocked to notice that it showed some faintly comparable yet not exactly same black screens. Until I connected it to the HDMI port - now it works flawlessly (and in the recent remedy attempts I had again tried to connect my previous Rift to the HDMI port too, and it would instantly go black). Try to understand that… so much for plug & play…

But that experience makes me wish even harder for a good polish on the 8K, because if you are not a IT wizard you at somes stage feel completely desparate & helpless in search of remedies for malfunctions, and it just sort of drains all enthusiasm.


#124

But that experience makes me wish even harder for a good polish on the 8K, because if you are not a IT wizard you at somes stage feel completely desparate & helpless in search of remedies for malfunctions, and it just sort of drains all enthusiasm.

Right :+1:
Nevertheless: If I had the choice between 1-2 hrs of 8K-setup due to unpolished, suboptimal software, and then, it runs - or waiting up to 1-2 months only to have a plug&play-device… I’d choose the first option. VR googles, at least in that price and quality range, still are some kind of enthusiast hardware. So I personally could live with the risk to configure and customize a bit on my own. A lot of people and PC enthusiasts is doing this every day with BIOS, OC, graphic cards, etc. So, for a lot of backers, I think, this wouldn’t be that much of an issue.

Of course, Pimax wants to reach “normal” users as well, no question about that. So they have to make the software as comfortable and plug&play as possible - mid-term.
But anybody who is willing to try it now, why not? Especially with some kind of NDA, I don’t see any problems. But of course, there’s always the risk that at least one person begins to talk about it…

Not an easy decision.
But for the money I backed, I am not willing to wait weeks and months again as long as I could set it up already now with a little bit of effort. 1-2 hours of “work” is better than 1-2 weeks or months of waiting :wink:


#125

Well, here we are back at the point where I in their shoes would not rely on not having any leaks if the product is with several hundreds or even thousands of backers. Ever wondered why Apple is famous for managing to keep their new releases secret ? All of the relevant people in comparable companies are under obligations of confidentiality too just as Apple’s employees, often even with their jobs depending on it. And yet Apple seem to be one of the few in the IT consumer industry capable of actually making sure that NDA’s are being adhered to. But I am happy if all of you feel that an NDA really gives such absolute protection no matter what the circumstances are - you are truly idealistic and have not been spoiled by reality…


#126

Well, I don’t say that an NDA gives absolute protection. And as I mentioned above: It’s not an easy decision for Pimax; of course at least one of hundred would speak, for sure.

Nevertheless I know that I’d be happy receiving the 8k as early as possible that I’d use it silently and “secretly” until the NDA would be over. As mentioned before: I wouldn’t even know any person in my environment that would be as eager as to post or show anything about the 8K - in my surroundings, I am a quite isolated VR-gamer :wink:
So I’d stick to any NDA or whatsoever.
I could take my 15 minutes of “fame” later, when the NDA is over, in the “second row” :wink:

Of course, I can’t speak for anybody else.


#127

Same for me, the fever hasn’t really spread but I am the sole surviving gamer too, so I am not really too surprised about that. It’s not that they would not find it interesting, but apparently not yet appealing enough to invest the space, money & effort.

Their loss… :stuck_out_tongue:

On the other point, as said I wouldn’t do it to please the backers but only as far as it helps reach the finish line sooner & in better shape. That would serve the purpose and would likely avoid any leaks. The last thing Pimax need at this stage is distraction, adding unnecessary issues to be taken care of, wild speculations, accusations, insults, etc. in the forum due to leaks.


#128

I hear what you’re saying Enopho and of course it makes sense. But then again … we’re all human here. We’re all excited and really longing for some info and since Pimax isn’t giving us any, it’s totally understandable that people are watching all kinds of video’s and looking at all places in the internet just hoping for some info from somebody.

If we’re not able to talk about this until the NDA is lifted (which might take a long time), then we should just better close the whole Pimax 8k forum. Well there are some people who can photoshop of course and are posting photoshopped funny pictures in that one thread but other than that this 8k forum could be closed. Or what do you expect people to talk about then in the 8k forum exactly?

So I think that’s really up to Pimax. If they dont want people to speculate, well then they should just close the 8k forum. Because literally all we can do IS speculate (or post photoshopped funny pictures)


#130

I get what you are saying ,no news is no news and only so much tec talk without repeating shit ,but i do have to say ive tryed keeping away till real news appers but there are some interesting things here without the what ifs and funny pics ,lots of which spawned from the last batch of real news ,patiance is key and now i have to go slap my self switch of my phone and do somthing other that speculate on what i thought you ment ,but hay this forum is the grout between the tiles of the dayz


#131

Pimax should not forget that we backers are enthusiasts who funded this and we expect to fiddle with / tune with the software , We should not have to wait for their final retail software .


#132

@Axacuatl, @sjefdeklerk:

Totally agree with this :+1:

And as mentioned already earlier before by many here:

If Pimax and @xunshu would add a little bit of more detailed information on where and why it hangs, what exactly is to be done and finished, and when this will be done approximately (end July, end August, end September,…), a lot of speculations would stop. Speculations and rumors only start, if you don’t know anything specific and have to guess.

I am convinced that, as soon as Pimax would reveal some detailed information, the whole story would get a lot quieter and smoother. Of course, you’ll always find somebody who trolls and finds something to drag in the mud. But well… that happens anyway. But with clear and unambiguous statements from Pimax side, one could always argue against such trolling, and far less people would notice such trolling.


#133

Hmm. During the past 6 months they did sometimes give their estimates, and then it panned out quite differently.

What was the result ? Even greater unhappiness of the backer base. They have proven to not be very good at estimating the resolution of issues, perhaps because they sometimes just are too optimistic, e.g. not factoring in delay on supplier side etc., sometimes perhaps simply not completely overseeing the complex matters which raise their ugly head, i.e. good but not necessarily true experts at some of the required technologies. After all, this is not Oculus with tens and hundreds of well-paid experts, but still a reasonably small company.

What I am trying to say is that they gave estimates in the past, possibly really believing that they are realistic, but that backfired. Now they have learnt their lesson, and it’s more of a it’s done when it’s done. As long ast they focus and keep on working hard, and that seems to be the case according to MRTV and Sweviver, I for my part will try to be patient and enjoy some retro-VR experiences with my good ol’ Rift.


#134

Well obviously all of their estimates were COMPLETELY wrong so of course people get angry. But why not give us some info, why not tell us how it’s going with the mass production stage, what’s happening, what the plan is, are they going to produce the HMD’s one by one or first 5000 HMD outer shells etc? What is their plan with the software front, are they going to iron out all bugs first or not? Things like that would help a LOT if you ask me.


#135

Indeed. ETA’s are always hard, but some more info (it’s not like there isn’t any at all, but a lot of it is very vague) would help us make our own estimates.That’s why I’m still hoping for an answer to the actual thread title question :smiley:


#136

" that experience makes me wish even harder for a good polish on the
8K, because if you are not a IT wizard you at somes stage feel
completely desparate & helpless in search of remedies for
malfunctions"

I can tell you that even if you have toyed with all version of windows ( starting from 3.1) Max OS, OS2 and linux, DVD player and various hardware devices. sometime you only want to have fun.

The level of complexity and pace of change of all those devices have increase through the years and it’s tougher to debug them without major headaches and time


#137

I fought always with the software of Oculus DK2 and the Pimax 4K. Often it was horrible…but…the result it was very worth :slight_smile:


#138

Right.
But as said: Better having 1-2 hrs of work and then have weeks and months of fun already now, instead of “loosing” weeks and months again and again without that fun… And I admit: The longer I have to wait for the 8K, the less fun I have with the 4K :wink:

I don’t expect the 8K-drivers and -software to be something I have to touch once every session - if so, something would have went completely wrong.
One session of setup after unboxing, best case 15 minutes, worst case 1-2 hrs, a little bit of tuning (IPD, brightness, SuperSampling) - and it’s done.
Especially with such enthusiast hardware, I am almost never satisfied with the default setup wizard anyway… So I can’t imagine, that at this time, VR and the 8K are working out-of-the-box as expected by default.

Well, but the arguments start to repeat themselves :wink:


#139

I can understand both arguments, but with what we know now, I give PImax one year to finished and ship the 8K headset ( beginning at end of September 2017 do the math), whatever was said or done by Pimax this has always been a minimal one year project if we zoom out and place our own desires a side.

So wait and feel the pain my fellow backer :wink:


#140

To be clear, this is the same guy that created a thread about this topic trying to get other people on the “60 fps train”.

When asked to backup his claim that 60 fps is a showstopper, his first argument was that other people in the thread had agreed with him (they hadn’t).

He was asked to provide some sort of evidence (he didn’t).

He then went on to say that some (non-specific) smart people were adding 60 fps to their headsets, so it must be crucial and that @Heliosurge shouldn’t be participating in a VR forum if he didn’t “understand the importance of video”.

@Heliosurge then closed his thread because he still refused to provide any external evidence (ie links) that supported his argument (as had been requested multiple times).

This is obviously the feature he considers most important, considering the majority of his posts since April have been specifically about this feature.

Edit: and that is how you use links as evidence :wink:


#141

Thanks for the summary. Yes, I recognized him. Personally, I could care less about 60 Hz. 90 Hz would be great, but I can accept 80, if that’s the best that Pimax can do.