Question: Was the Kickstarter prototype a huge fraud?


#323

Not really. The delays and reasons for that were communicated and sort of reasonable, and on top to that there were many backer comments supporting delays for further improvements, even when the campaign was still ongoing.

This thread is utterly nonsense. Xunshu told around 20th of April that shipping would be starting mid June in case everything goes well. We know it would take then until end of September until all units get shipped.

These statements are completely ignored here which is just plain FUD campaign talk. It just doesn’t make sense to start a blame-game 2 weeks after the new schedule has been made public.

And above that many of the threads started out of such impatient positions or posts that blame Pimax for not delivering or making wrong decisions come from new forum members that showed up only this year. What a coincidence! I would assume every backer had joined here some weeks after the Kickstarter campaign was over.
Again - in my view it’s all FUD campaign talk…
…waste of time these guys…


#324

Yes man, one thing that we agree is TIME. Almost half a year delayed, but what can we do … only wait and wait and wait…:sweat_smile:


#325

Well we don’t all agree. People like @SweViver say that they’re fine with a release in December. I think that’s like digging their own grave. By that time we most likely will have superior HMD’s entering the market shortly.

I do agree that we can’t do anything about it of course :slight_smile: Wait, wait and wait …


#326

I am afraid that they are just that kind of program managers - they have an idea of a solution to the problem at hand, and just assume that they can make it work as they think, and that it will be done in a couple days. And during the implementation there is always something, it turns out to be a more complex issue afzter all, a supplier delivers late or wrongly, the colleague you need is sick or off, etc. etc…

And come the next challenge, will they adapt their expectations to the experience they made ? No, of course not ! They will again assume everything goes fine, and then it should just be a matter of days.
Believe me, I have experienced that kind of program managers. It’s the type who tend to have red faces during later stages of a project, and run around hectically trying to fix all the holes while for every hole they fix, two new ones appear… they actually often work incredibly hard, but of course to some extent merely as a result of their own poor planning. The problem is, they do not understand that you simply have to assume a healthy portion of delays even where you do not see any issues yet.

What I am trying to say is that these kind of individuals are not mean or dishonest, they are just not very good at the core task, managing a project reliably. But in such a small company like Pimax you will not have a mere project manager, but it will be a senior engineer whose core capability and task is the engineering, not the PM, and it’s down to pure luck if they have PM skills or not. Judging from what I have seen from Pimax so far, they seem to be an enthusiastic, chaotic bunch. So just better forget about expecting any bit of PM skills - but sometimes good things can come from such a bunch, because they will make things happen a more professional company would have ruled out as too high risk.

Well, there are people assuming that Valve’s mysterious 3 VR titles and the Knuckles are interlinked. So if say Halflife 2 is ported by them to VR, and utilizes the sophisticated Knuckles controllers, that would be an immediate system seller for the Knuckles controllers. Which in turn would help all devs to assume that there is a critical mass of Knuckles users out there, so they can seriously consider supportiung them deeply for their new game…

t’s just less predictable, with a greater chance of variations.


#327

I do think the people who bash criticism do have the moral high ground over the people who accuse the Pimax team of criminal activity without any base in reality. ¯_(ツ)_/¯


#328

I agree to most of what you just said. However since the BE/4k debacle, where Pimax undeniable lied hard until we caught them red handed and they couldn’t keep up the lie anymore (switching KNOWINGLY the 4k display for a 1440p in their ‘4k’ headset and not telling anyone about it, so shipping out ‘4k’ headsets to customers, with a 1440 panel), I don’t go with the idea that Pimax is always honest anymore. In fact I think a lof ot the current behaviour can also be easier explained when you actually assume they’re telling lies AGAIN, just as they did back then.


#329

I’m not sure who is accusing Pimax of criminal behaviour? Although lying to your customers, KNOWINGLY selling a 1440p panel as a ‘4k’ headset, that’s nearing criminal activity if you ask me.


#330

Okay, that sounds pretty bad. And stupid, b/c you cannot even assume to get away with that kind of trickery.

Well, let’s hope for the best. Whatever they do, they will be harmed by messing it up more than we. We might loose our pldged amounts, they will loose their perspective and ultimately their jobs.

So, back to the waiting game…

Err… look at the thread title… :joy:
But seriously, if they tried the same and delivered significantly lower res displays on the 8K, yes, I would agree that that would be fraudulent and thus criminal. But so far we have no real signs of that kind of issue, and for me the 90 Hz or lens things are different beasts.


#331

Yeah Half Life 3 anyone? Lol


#332

Well they got away with it for a while. I remember more and more people starting to post that they disagreed that the Pimax 4k had about 0 SDE. I though they were just over complaining. Until I reverse engineered the firmware and found out that they were using an 1440p panel, since their firmware code was specifically written to address a Samsung 1440p panel. At that point Pimax blamed suppliers to deliver the wrong panels. But again,the FW was specifically written for that 1440p panel, so the Pimax developers knew. And Pimax shipped them anyway.


#333

You do recall the proof the 4k panel was something $60 where as the samsung qhd oled was over $100. I think it was a mistake in mfg & shipping.


#334

Do I wait for the 8K and want to have it more yesterday than tomorrow? Hell yes! This is my first KS campaign I take part in and none the less I informed myself well… about KS campaigns and Pimax. As stated so many times, you invest in a product, you don’t buy it… and investments are always a kind of risky, regarding the time and the loss of the money put in.
So this wrong planned deadlines/milestones are not very surprising for me. As I backed I knew it would take about a year before I can put my hands on the HMD… also (even not a so great chance) I calculated a failure and the loss of the money. If you invest whether on the stock market or in a new tech (company), you should only do so if you could live on with a failure and the chance of loosing your money. I don’t think we won’t get a great HMD, sometime, from Pimax. But all this acid, personal insulting language won’t change a thing. We won’t get the HMD a day earlier ord change the communication attitude from Pimax. The only thing is, that perhaps someone posting this feels better for a short time and eventually comes to the point he should have known better when he backed and in the end it was own fault not being more realistic… just my thoughts…


#335

Again, their programmers developed SPECIFICALLY for that 1440p panel, explicitely addressing that Samsung 1440p panel. They knew. Do you honestly believe that their programmers did all that on their own consent? WIthout Pimax management knowing what was going on? Why would they do that? That’s absurd. Come on Heliosurge.


#336

The topic was created by someone who is not actively participating here. Yet all those like Marco are insulting and extremely aggressive in attacking all those who think differently. That was my point.


#337

Yes & was sold to businesses & ZozoVR as @lukeb found & posted the BE model.

Why would you double the cost of the screen to sell your BE model (which had a higher price) for less as a 4k model.

I would love to buy a fully loaded porsche for a basic model price. Think about it; it was a mis ship as was revealed. Huge mistake that costed them alot with selling a higher price product for less & paying to exchange them.

I myself have been watching for the sharp panel to be in stock. Add a mipi board & overhead projector & voila cheap 4k projector for likely under $400. :heart_eyes:


#338

That’s what Pimax claimed. But I never believed that. Do you honestly think at standard 1440p Samsung phone panel would be more expensive than an 4k display panel? And again, the programmers knew, they wrote the firmware for it. So that’s your proof, right there.


#339

Do i need to post the proof again like I did for @Davobkk?

$60 to replace Sony Z5 4k lcd panel.

Over $100 to replace the Samsung qhd Oled.

Both came with digitizers.

Of course they had Firmware for their Business model headset. ZozoVR was selling it not foumd on Gearbest & such.


#340

Yes please, I’d like to see that. Which Samsung 1440p panel did you check? the actual one Pimax used in the 4k? It is a bit beside the point though: even if it was true, Pimax might have had reasons for it, like that they could not get new stock for the Sharp 4k panel quickly enough and that they thought to overcome this short term lack of supply this way. Fact remains that their programmers knew. And if they knew, then management knew. Or do you think this was some conspiracy among Pimax programmers that management not knew about?


#341

Imo most of the discussion here is fueled by people having different core values and hardly anyone can be convinced to join the other side.
We have the crowd one side who trusts the company and say that voicing concerns just makes things worse and others who think that Pimax hasn’t lived up to its expectations.

I’m more a believer that Pimax knows how many months it is off of mass production and using the time to perfect the headset while at the same time appeasing backers.

The only danger for them is that we will write bad reviews, which will is the only leverage we have and would impact their sales. Waiting too long can bias a users negatively.

Core value differences: not bulletproof science so take it with a grain of salt.


#342

Will see what i can do on the Samsung panel when have time. But if you recall during the discovery; the mainboard was also upgraded/different than the 4k model.