Respectfully, I want to protest about these base stations


#63

No Matthew. That is meant to be a compliment. Xunshu was/is doing a good job. But communication was lacking a bit due to how stretched the team has been.

Since your return you have reinforced the teams position giving needed stability & updates as a result have been non-stop.


#64

Hello Ricaardo,

I’ll explain again, Why not use $100 coupon or $100 credit to buy base station and base station & controller packages?

  1. Base station is produced by VIVE, we are authorized to purchase it.
  2. Because of that, we are not a manufacturer and the cost is not under our control.
  3. KS backer has also asked me before, can I buy base stations with $100 coupons? I replied no, because 100 coupons are for the wireless module.
  4. In addition to the base station, $100 credit can use everything in Pimax shop.

And my reply to you is that if there is no base station, you can watch movies and play some games that do not need to be positioned.

Thank you for your support and understanding.

Matthew


#65

Maybe the first batch of hosing was not good enough :thinking::face_with_hand_over_mouth:


#66

Hi Matthew thanks for responding.

First, please understand I am not trying to make a demand that would injure Pimax’s contractual obligations to Valve (or whoever the producer may be)

I understand Pimax does not produce the base station and that the company cannot control the cost of the unit (to Pimax). I also understand that Pimax is now claiming they will not sell the base station as a stand alone item.

However we were told that the base stations, if sold in a package would be different. The deposit is $300- presumably some of that reflects cost of base stations, some of that reflects cost of controllers and of course profit. Why lock our credit out of this purchase? The cost of the base stations are only a fraction of the total cost. At one point it sounded like we could use the credits to buy controllers, so why we can’t use the credits for controller+base station seems very deceptive.

Furthermore I was told the hand tracking deposit (which I paid $100) could also be used for add ons (which at the time of the Kickstarter included the base stations as a standalone item). Going by what Pimax has told me, I now have $200 I don’t really know what to do with.

Pimax first mislead us in saying we could purchase the base station as an add on. All the other add-ons are still allegedly for sale as stand alone items- it was never made clear that there was some exception about the base stations. Many of us made our plan to purchase later in reliance of this. So we were mislead again when the base station (without warning) no longer counted as an add on. Then when Pimax set the condition that the base station could be sold as a package, they again revoke our ability to use the credit.

The remaining places where we can use this credit is incredibly limited. All I want at this point is a functional headset. I would rather not buy base stations twice, and frankly I was hoping to support Pimax by purchasing theirs. I should also add that it was not clarified to me that the base stations were necessary for full positional tracking until AFTER the close of the campaign. With all of the talk about the laser tracking I had misunderstood that base stations were necessary to the controllers, not the headset.

There are a number of backers on this forum who are stuck in one way or another- either without access to the V2 base stations, or who may end up with an unusable/undesired combination of components. For those of us who have credits with the company, we are now being forced to literally leave money on the table and use other funds to purchase this hardware. I hope Robin Weng understands why some of us are very upset about this. Robin seems like a person who cares about the outreach/message of this company, so I think it’s reasonable that he approaches this issue with the community directly.

By refusing my credited funds I really don’t know what to say. It makes me want to stop dealing with this company. I am not happy to say it, but I don’t know what else to do.


#67

Yeah, I’m not happy about the situation either, but I’m not letting it upset me.

I joined a Kickstarter, and my money is gone, all I can hope for is that Pimax is able to follow up on most of their promises. They might not be able to deliver on all the specs, but it looks like the 5K+ is a great headset. As long as I get it and that the software regularly gets updated and patched, I’ll be content (but not entirely happy).


#68

Hi Riccardo,

I realized that some people will say we are cheater when we didn’t statisfy their expectations or requirements. The $100 coupon as extended goal during kickstarter period for our backers to purchase wireless modules. This pre-order campaign, $300 is only the deposit of the base station and controller, not the final price. So that’s why you can’t use $100 credit for base station and base station and controller.

Here is the link before:
https://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/pimax-5k-8k-faq-updating/7462

Thank you.


#69

Matthew, there seems to be some confusion on the 100$ coupon for the wireless module and the $100 store credit for those who switch to 5K+ from 8K.

Of course the 100$ coupon is only for the wireless module. But the 100$ store credit should be available for anything sold in the store.

Either way, if due to valve’s restrictions it isn’t possible to use the 100$ store credit for the basestations then that’s not your fault. I understand the frustration of those who aren’t happy with this but it’s how it is and ultimately out of Pimax’s control.

Personally I hope that Valve brings out an affordable bundle of 2x 2.0 Basestations + Knuckles. If you buy the stupidly overpriced Vive accesories you are looking at 600$ for basestations and controllers! (new) you may as well buy the full vive box then… 300$ for 2x basestations and 2x controllers is still a lot tbh but a lot more reasonable. I’d like to see it be $200. 50$ for each piece. 2.0 tech is cheaper to produce and valve isn’t really that driven on making a profit from hardware. So, fingers crossed there.

Additionally, whilst I understand the need to focus on HMD production, it does produce a potential issue. It will be the case that someone who ordered the full pack (because they don’t have a vive) will receive their headset. Then, they’ll still have to wait for months on the basestation. And who knows how much longer for the controllers. They paid for the whole pack so probably they don’t want to additionally pay for some vive solutions in the meantime. The answer of “oh just use your headset for movies & seated VR” is not acceptable for many.

I’m saying that the tracking & controllers should be more important. The HMD is finished, what are the engineers still working on? They should be designing the controllers now. The basestations however are once again not in your control and we all understand that of course.

Please relay this to your colleagues. Nobody wants to have their brand new pimax just sit there gathering dust because you can’t play the games you want on it.

@matthew.xu


#70

Valve is selling v2.0 LH modul at a base cost of $65 US to 3rdparties to rebrand. This might not include a power adapter. There is an Article on this awhile back.

This is how Valve is making money on sharing tracking system. By having 3rdparties buy LHes to rebrand.


#71

Or just not living up to its full potential. Even though I only intend to play seated games, I want to be able to lean-in and otherwise have full movement in-game.


#72

Keep in mind for that purpose v1.0 LH will work equally as v2.0 LH. (Tracking quality equal)

In fact v1.0 LH gives greater compatibility as you can use both v1.0 tracking accessories & v2.0 tracking accessories.

LH v1.0 Pros

  • Compatible with v1.0 tracking Headsets & accesories. OG Vive headset+wands+tracking pucks.
  • Compatible v2.0 Headsets & accesories. Pimax & controllers. Vive Pro+wands & valve knuckles

Cons

  • Only up to 4 LHes & LHes need to “see” one another or use sync cable(s) (more difficult for on the go setups ie roadshows)
  • Smaller Roomscale
  • Cannot be used with v2.0 LH

LH v2.0 Pros

  • easier setup LHes do not need to see each other or use Sync cables.
  • Larger Playspace & possible to setup multiple rooms more than 4+ LHes vs 4 max.

Cons

  • Only compatible with v2.0 tracking devices (Pimax headset & controllers, Vive Pro headset\Wands v2.0\Tracking Puck v2.0 & knuckles)
  • Cannot be used with v1.0 Lighthouse & incompatible with v1.0 tracking headsets (og vive headset\wands & tracking pucks)

#73

Indeed. I get instantly motion sick if I’m stuck in 3Dof mode on my odyssey. It’s just not an option for many, myself included.


#74

I think I have a steel gut. :laughing:

I even at times play games like Distance standing up with only 3dof. :wink:

Granted the first time VRing in phone VR did stumble & loose my balance after taking the headset off trying to walk.

But while no ill effect playing Ethan Carter on the old p4k at 60hz for a couple of hours. Re7 on psvr at 120hz did have a slight off feeling after 10m of playtime.


#75

Can you tell me briefly what we can do without stations or controllers. Assuming I added the leap.
Does the Pimax still work without any stations? If so, what works and what doesn’t?
Sorry if it’s in the thread already :stuck_out_tongue:


#76

The pimax has 3dof head tracking support with gyros, you can use it without stations but very limited.


#77

It’s the same as with any other headset that is tracked externally. The headset itself has gyroscopes that track rotation. So you can turn your head around, up down and angle (confused dog pose). But that’s it. No actual positional movement. So you could play any game that doesn’t require movement. Racing sims, flight sims, things like Elite Dangerous would work to a degree. You would however not be able to lean in closer to a panel to read it better or such.

Additionally, anything that requires the motion controllers would also not work because they are also tracked by the basestations. (but you mentioned no controllers either so).


#78

We talked with Robin about how to use $100 credit (change from 8K to 5K+ Kickstarter backer) just now, due to the pre-order base station and controller package is a deposit, not the final price.
Our current solution is that the deposit is not allowed to use $100 credit. After the final price is confirmed, backers can use $100 credit to purchase base stations and controller packages. However, it is limited to buying base stations and controller packages. It is not allowed to use purchase base stations alone.

Thank you very much.


Switching to 5k+, $100 Coupon Clarification?
#79

Great solution for those who needed this!


#80

Actually LH 2.0 are also much less complicated mechanically, so, if the quality of individual components is the same, they are less prone to fail in the long term.


#81

Any games that say seated & Gamepad.

Ie
Distance
Vox Machinae
HellBlade
Megaton Rainfall (awesome god mentality)
Flightsims & racesims
Lucky’s Tail

& more


#82

True but as many have said the v1.0 lighthouses are quite robust already as @Cdaked mentioned he observed one taking a tumble hitting tge ground mounted to a tripod.

The less complicated & cheaper to make is unlikely Valve is passing on the savings to headset manufacturers.

Anything often with less components has less to go wrong.