Serious paypal question


#1

@matthew.xu @PM_Sean. @Pimax-Support

Serious Paypal question.

I heard about Pimax from reviewers and went to pre-order and found no info on ETA … this has changed since (updated faq).

But I noted that the ETA (estimated Time of arrival) was beyond the 45 day protection period offered by Paypal?

Most reputable companies charge the card when a pre-order enters the shipping process. After reading closely I note this is not the case with Pimax. (And Pimax is also offering, further, very expensive items such as RTX 2080 GPU’s for pre-order ? )

All the above made me concerned, as Pimax is taking large amounts of money, with no protection for the consumer, other than their word?

so I read the terms and conditions of Paypal.


PAYPAL

A pre-sale item is advertised for sale before the seller actually has the item. Often, these items are sold before they are available to the general public.

A seller might use the money from the pre-sale of an item to purchase the item.

PayPal permits pre-sales on a limited basis as long as the seller:

Guarantees shipment within 20 days from the date of purchase.
Clearly identifies the item as a pre-sale.
Provides proof, if needed, that they can successfully deliver the product (supplier information, purchase invoices, shipping information, or delivery confirmation).

Without repeating a huge amount of warnings … I’ll just include one quote.

QUOTE … ‘PayPal’s window for filing a dispute is only 45 days long. According to PayPal policy, a company is not supposed to let you use PayPal for pre-orders longer than 20 days out, but if they do and the product never gets delivered, PayPal won’t be able to do anything at all for you after 45 days.’

Preorder is not an extension of Kickstarter … :frowning:


#2

You have 180 days to dispute. I use paypal credit card.


#3

Well there might end up being disputes because it’s highly unlikely preorders will be shipping out anytime in the next 4 months. Pimax should be aware of these conditions


#4

A dispute will take into consideration the actions of the consumer. Read the terms and conditions above.

Paypal pays back money they hold … show me that Pimax have informed Paypal they are actually taking the money without delivering within the terms and conditions.

You think if a company is running a scam (not accusing Pimax) Paypal will Pay out thousands/ hundred of thousands out of their own pocket?


#5

To be very clear, there is a huge difference between a kickstarter backer and a consumer that buys from an online company (I didn’t even realise it was preorder until I checked out these forums).

With $5M a few hundred headsets can be built and drip fed to backers while seeking preorders, even if they cost a lot when produced in a small run. Scaling up to commercially viable amounts is a different matter.

As Kickstarter backers this is a risk you took.

Those being enticed to lay out 1000’s of dollars to a company that hasn’t shown it can produce more than a handful of headsets, with prices inflated with GPU’s they questionably have is a differnt matter.

Hopefully this is a misunderstanding by Pimax, but what I am reading on these forums doesn’t fill me with confidence :frowning:

By the way I would pay a lot of money for a decent headset with a wide FOV …


#6

If I was a betting man I would say Pimax will deliver, and I am a betting man since I backed the kickstarter. As of today we don’t see the kind of production that will fill new customers with confidence. All we have is promises, the same thing we’ve had since the beginning. I BELIEVE Pimax will deliver, but they are not exactly kicking units out the door yet. Until we start seeing hundreds of Pimax’s showing up on people’s doorsteps there will be legitimate doubt. A lot of people said they went to pre-orders too early, we understand their reasons why for efficiency, but it didn’t make sense at a time when trust was low with production and communication all but stopped.

At the end of the day it’s your money and your risk. You still have time to back out. If you would like to wait until the second round of pre-orders you should have a better idea about the likelihood of receiving your HMD before your buyer protection expires.


#7

I think what really makes me concerned, more than anything, is the pre orders of GPU’s.

How can a company pre-sell another companies product they don’t have? … I am assuming they haven’t bought in hundreds or thousands of GPU’s, when their own product is months away from being available to their pre order customers?


#8

In the case of 2080 GPUs It’s not too far fetched that they can get a pallet of them without too much trouble. My local shops are flush with 2080s, just the 2080 Tis are hard to get. Whether their pricing, delivery, or customer support is on par is another issue.


#9

Why would somone want to buy a GPU from a Chinese vendor in the first place? How would the warranty work with that. It’s bizarre Pimax now claims to be a GPU seller with no return policy whatsoever. This whole preorder thing is one big cash grab


#10

I wouldn’t buy a GPU from Pimax and I don’t know anyone who would. I’m not going to accuse their intentions but I think it’s a poor decision for both buyer and seller.


#11

I’m not disputing such, however PImax are discussing cash flow problems ?..

Nvidia are selling their GPU’s at a very low profit margin to AIB partners … the margins to a third party seller will be even tighter. Makes no sense to have a pallet or pallets of GPU’s sat around for 4 months?

I mean even a 100 units will be around $80000 …

Bottom line is laying out such amounts for several months, for a slight profit, makes no commercial sense?


#12

Look, I am not a lawyer, nor a Paypal expert, but as far as I can see, any purchase made outside of Paypals Terms and conditions are NOT covered by Paypals buyer protection.

I checked Paypals terms and conditions, most consumers won’t


PAYPAL

What items are not covered under Buyer Protection?

There are some transactions that we don’t cover including but not limited to payments for:

(not relevant)

In addition, items prohibited in our Acceptable Use Policy are ineligible for coverage.


PayPal Acceptable Use Policy

Prohibited Activities

  1. relate to transactions that (d) are for the sale of certain items before the seller has control or possession of the item,

(I refer you to my first post and in particular) ‘Guarantees shipment within 20 days from the date of purchase.’


#13

Warranty would work exactly the same as with any vendor, every third party store here has sold GPUs they don’t have. If I buy my 2080 from pimax or from nvidia directly would make no difference.


#14

If you are in Europe, you are covered by 2 year warranty according to the consumer law for any product sold there. This does not apply, when you buy the stuff overseas. Plus for high end Nvidia cards, there is usually 3 year warranty given by the manufacturer (ASUS, Gigabyte, etc.).

I do not think anything of that is will be honored by Pimax.


#15

Buyer protection guarantee means paypal will refund you out of their own pocket if they can’t recover it from the seller. You have 6 months to raise a claim and as long as paypal can take the money from their account then you’ll get a refund.


#16

Yes, I would be interested in details of reputable companies charging their customers cards before a pre-order enters the shipping process? and several months before shipping?

Then again a reputable company wouldn’t be breaking Paypals terms and conditions to deny their customers the protections offered by Paypal :frowning:

As I said earlier, Kickstarter backers take a risk to help new products come to fruitition … consumers should have protection beyond opinions based on nothing other than someones opinion.

If Pimax wants more money to bring their product to market they should open a new crowd funding appeal and not take money from unaware consumers.


#17

What is the point of including Paypals ;Terms and conditions’ if you don’t read them?

There are exemptions to Paypals ‘Buyers protection’ I will not repeat :frowning: read my previous posts.


#18

I’m not sure why you responded to me? I didn’t mention any of this.


#19

If you have doubts about the Pimax credibility or don’t trust our company. I suggest you withdraw from the pre-order, and we can arrange a refund for you.
When our product is officially on sale, you will buy it according to the actual situation.
Thank you.


#20

If you have been entangled in delivery time, risk, or other factors. I suggest you can make a decision after paying attention to the delivery and reputation of our products in the future. Because we do not want anyone to misunderstand us.