Some thoughts about resolution, FOV, and comfort after comparing 5K+ and Index

opinion

#41

I’m saying that if Valve says it’s hard, then it IS hard. Which most likely means that a company like Pimax is not capable of doing it. They obviously failed with the 5k+/8k and I’m extremely skeptical they can deliver a distortion free image on such wide FoV on the 8k-X


#42

Yeah that’s what you said. You do realize I even went as far as opening my Pimax 4k, cutting out plastic to manually change the IPD? And that I’m the only one on this forum who even did a tear down of his 5k+? And that I’ve written custom firmwares for the Pimax 4k? If there’s a modder here on these forums then that’s me.


#43

I currently started wearing reading glasses and it took quite some time to get used to walk with them. The change in my experience with the distortions was instant when putting the DAS and the thick padding (and is reliably reproducible).

The difference in our opinion is that I believe for most people this can be fixed with setup changes, he believes this is an inherent, unavoidable and unfixable (at the moment) flow of the wider FOV. And going back to the start of the discussion - it was the explanation of why people do not play on Large FOV. What FOV setting are you using? Is the distortion enough reason to not use Large (I don’t know the answer to that, I’m genuinely asking)


#44

On this we agree.

Which most likely means that a company like Pimax is not capable of doing it.

On this we don’t.
I do not believe they should give up on the large FOV, I believe they should continue to innovate and make it work for more people. They already did things people were saying are impossible.


#45

That’s nonsense, I can easily move my HMD a few mm to the left/right over my nose for testing purposes. And of course i tried that too and no, that didn’t improve the distortions at all.


#46

Well I can explain to you why I don’t think too highly of Pimax and their tech capabilities. I’ve reverse engineered quite a bit of their code and it was HORRIBLY written, at least in the past, not sure if they got better coders now. Also their coders were asking others for information on specific VR topics on several internet coders forums, where other hobbyists were answering them. Or in some cases Valve employees had to jump in to explain things to them. And these were pretty basic questions. I figured, if they didn’t even know that basic stuff, how are these guys going to solve the hardest puzzles out there?

Look, I like Pimax, i do, they at least TRY, where all the big guys have released HMD’s this year with disappointing low res panels. At least Pimax is going to offer us higher resolution. And of course they might surprise us, I’m not saying it’s impossible. But I do figure it’s much more likely that perfection is going to come from a company like Valve and not from a company like Pimax.


#47

If your face shape physiology matches close enough to headset design you might. Truth new Face Gasket might improve xp for more users.

But the presumption that folks can fix it to match your perception is equally false. Unlike Spandex one size does not fit all.

There was an extreme ipd mod that allowed the lenses to move closer together. In SJ case he might need them to move further apart physically. So by design out of the box without extreme measures is not a good experience.

Now you said your a glass wearer so you might not be as sensitive to things a person with perfect vision might be as a result.

As SJ said we all experience things differently.

As for FoV I use mainly Normal & can see the warping on the edges (slightly)


#48

Yeah that ‘warping’ (distortion) isn’t very extreme at all. But especially together with the latency it’s enough to give me the impression of an unstable/wobbly VR world. If you move your head, the world you look into should not move/change at all (just like the real world doesn’t move/morph when you move your head). On the 5k+ it does, due to those 2 factors.


#49

I’ve been curious about the 5k+ wobble as MrTV only seemed to notice the latency wobble in the 8k. Could be a sensitivity issue or 2 different types of Latency. One tracking based?

As others have reported the 5k+ latency.


#50

Hmm, I see how this can be aggravating… But I don’t know how else to word it.
On the other hand you told me that I don’t know the difference between a straight and a curved line so I guess we are even :slight_smile:
But seriously - it was never my intention to offend anybody and I’m sorry if I have done so.

I don’t think there is a point in continuing this argument - we have said what we think and it seems we are not going to get to an agreement. But this is perfectly fine - the point of the forums is to have different voices and opinions after all.
This whole thing is a bit depressing - here we are with out different heads, games and ideas about what VR “should be”… I’m going to grab a beer.


#51

A good healthy debate can lead to new ideas. Now healthy debate shouldn’t be confused with “polirically correct” as a debate that is flat doesn’t often inflame the creative process as effectively.

Without differences no new ideas are likely to form. :beers::sunglasses::+1::sparkles:


#52

Well I just did something I haven’t done in months… dust off my Pimax 5k+ and connect it again, I wanted to try something new, I figured the only thing I hadn’t tried is canting the panels. This is of course impossible with 2 eyes but you can just close one eye and then change the canting angle. So I just tried this, I closed one eye then with the other eye I tried it all: moving the display closer, further, up, down, left, right, tilting and canting it. I’ve been doing that for over 15 minutes but could never get it to the point where the world would stay stable when I moved my head.

I then put on my Index again and immediately felt … ah yeah that’s how it should be :slight_smile: So man, this really leaves us with 2 explanations: either we have different hardware or one of us is crazy :slight_smile: Haha. Really, I kept looking with 1 eye closed and just kept thinking “how the HELL does this guy doesn’t see these distortions”. Really, it beats me man.

BTW, the wide FoV of the Pimax IS nice, I had forgotten how nice it is :slight_smile: But all the downsides of the HMD (mostly those distortions) just make it unusable for me. And I actually do think the Index’s SDE is a noticeable step up now. In my memory they were about the same, but the SDE on the Index is noticeably better and it’s quite a bit sharper and the colours are much better.


#53

Interesting read. I was considering the Index but the glare worries me. I’d love to try one before I bought it. Maybe if I find someone close to me I’ll check it out. As I play ED mostly, and remember the godrays on the old Vive, I don’t want to potentially waste the money


#54

If glare is important to you, I’d strongly suggest to first try it. The glare on the Index IS a considerable downside and in darker games (with bright objects) it’s quite in your face.


#55

I don’t believe the post to be negative at all. I’ve loved my Pimax for most of the time I’ve had it. The comparisons I’ve made are of things written in the title, not sure why what I’ve said is not relevant. The topic specifically mentions the Index, so if any comparisons are unfavourable to the Pimax, not my problem.

My main point of contention here is we have some people claiming that Large FOV is the only way to fly, yet completely dismiss the 120hz+ modes of the Index as something nobody has the horsepower to run. How is this even a thing? Compared to a Small FOV BASE, going to a Large FOV costs more render budget than going from 90 to 120hz with the same supersample value. It’s not a hard concept and it confuses me greatly how one is more useful that the other purely in terms of being able to use it or not with current hardware.

Also, I don’t own a FFR capable card and if it doesn’t come to the 10 series, I never will be. Not with the 20 series anyway. So you’re singling out a small minority of users who have adopted the hardware capable of supporting it. The benefits do not apply to me and therefore are not part of my argument.

I may very well keep my Pimax. Who knows. But I do know that after I compare both, I won’t have to wonder anymore.


#56

For me 170˚ is the ideal compromise. It is sufficient for a good immersion and the distortion is negligible. The 200˚ doesn’t make so much difference to the immersion to be worth the extra GPU power. In addition, the distortions on the edges start to bother me.


#57

Comparisons shouldn’t be viewed as negatives or positives.

Yes it is true 120hz is easier to achieve in small FoV of the Index. This is due to decreased rendering costs overall. No extra details to render in the scene meaming no added Physics objects etc…

However as pointed out in many blogs on Refresh rate alot of folks will not be able to see much difference between 90 & 120 & even less between 120 & 144. This is an area that will depend on games & individual sensitivity to refresh rates. Now something many should see is a clearer picture at a lower Res & higher refresh rate.

Now I with using 2 16:9 panels Canting is needed. What is perhaps depressing is Wearability Sky Managed to create 150 Horizontal FoV with 1 screen without dual canted displays with decent results through optics & had a huge sweet spot to boot. So maybe a 21:9 display with slight curve like lg g4 phone might be able with Optics based on their document could create a better distortlion lessend wide fov headset.

I have a 1080ti btw. With some Oculus Titles we do get game baked supported FFR vs Driver external support potentially depending on how pimax render works with Oculus content.


#58

Sorry to ask - can someone tell me what FFR does? Is it worth using? Can it help with FPS? I’ve never tried it tbh


#59

what headset did you try to know this?


#60

I’m not aware that there was any kind of beta/field test, so its more wishful thinking that does not match our experience with pimax