Some thoughts about resolution, FOV, and comfort after comparing 5K+ and Index

opinion

#61

I hadn’t had the time yet to do much 90/120 hz testing, I just have been running at 120 hz and the image looked really nice. But after your words I just tried it and I figured, let’s try it with a video in SimpleVR player. And I immediately felt I could see the difference, especially when the camera pans/turns, I see some ‘micro stutter’ at 90 hz that I didnt see on 120 hz, the image just feels extremely smooth when the camera pans at 120 hz.

However I do know that your mind can play tricks on you (like many audiophiles claim to be able to tell the difference between 320 kbps and FLAC but then fail in blind tests). So I did some blind tests, actually very easy, you just put your mouse in the middle between the 90/120 hz buttons and then move left/right, slightly up down, without looking and then try to end where you think is the middle between these 2 buttons and then without looking at the settings screen restart SteamVR. And yes, every single time I did this I had it right, so it wasn’t my mind playing tricks on me, but 120 hz definitely is an improvement. And the interesting notion here is that those vids are of course 60 hz, which implies that the other frames are all calculated but this really works well…

Of course that doesn’t mean everybody sees it, like you said. But for me it’s now so obvious that I don’t want to go back to 90 hz.

BTW, another test is just in the SteamVR room wave your hands, I think @jojon used this too as a quick test; you always see some ‘ghosting’ when you quickly move your hands, I mean your mind sees (‘remembers’) where the previous frame was and this distance between the previous frame and the new frame is much lower on 120 hz, it’s much closer to reality.

Haven’t done 120/144 hz testing yet, will do that later today but I’m assuming I won’t be able to see much difference between these 2, since 120 hz just looks extremely smooth to me already.


#62

Fixed Foveate Rendering. It can help by placing less emphasis on outside details. RTX cards have a variation built into it.

Oculus SDK haa a game side implentation tgat can be uses natively in the game engine (doean’t nees gpu support & should be better vs RTX external support)

Pimax’s RTX FFR is a bit hit & miss on gamea but will improve gpu fps at a cost it seems of more cpu use


#63

So then it is not proven one way or the other. Real trick wouls be to release the Mask Stl file.

But users observations od new design believe it will improve xp.


#64

??? is there another HMD besides the pimax on the market that has 200˚ FOV?


#65

Some people already replied to you earlier.

so if any comparisons are unfavourable to the Pimax, not my problem.

Nobody is going to complain about about pointing out benefits of the Index as long as they are adequate. We are all in search of the best VR experience.


#66

Not sure why we’re all getting weird. He expressed his opinions. I appreciated reading it all tbh.


#67

Do you play Elite Dangerous? If so, does glare cause a problem?


#68

Good to see some other Index converts that mirror my opinion I posted some time ago. The hz issue can be quite subtle but once you “feel it”, the difference is quite a lot in specific titles that shine using 144hz. SPT and Racket Fury, Rez Infinite (extra mode only) are good examples. You just see a real fluid motion of objects which you don’t get at 90hz.

As Sjef said, when you look at the entire package the Index just feels right. I never got that with the 8K. I always felt something was off or I hadn’t calibrated it properly etc. Always fiddling. Index just works and that’s how it should be.

I really do hope Pimax can nail the VR experience moving forwards with the 8KX but something inside me says they will continue to wing-it like they are still doing now. It would be nice to be proven wrong.


#69

it was more about that you claimed that more then what pimax offers is not worth the gpu power - without trying

you can try a star vr (the pre “One” model) in (very few) arcades - i did it last year in Tokyo and it was way more immersive then pimax 5k+/8k (but i guess its not just the fov, also the blurry outer part - distortions or not - that never gets sharp is a reason why pimax needs to be improved)

and 200° FOV diagonal, its just a claim, I’d like to see the calculation for this
we should stay with hor. fov much easier to check


#70

Simple Truth we have as always folks on both sides of the fence. There are sime out there as well that opted to return the Index in favor of pimax headset.

But really at the end of the day it doesn’t matter which headset speaks to one. As long as the user is happy with the experience it provides them.


#71

Hmm… Strange as others said opposite on OG StarVR but there are a few variants of the original version. Plus content made specifically for it. Though most said it wasn’t worth the cost of the xp.

I’d like StarVR og & one have their FoV verified. Only one that seems possibly legit is Xtal.


#72

The index is NOT a downgrade.


#73

Then you misunderstood me. I meant that I prefer the “normal FOV” of the pimax to the “large FOV” of the pimax, because what I get there is not worth the needed GPU extra power.

I had heard somewhere that the star VR should appear after all.

the first thing that needs to be improved on the pimax is the real bad black value. If you’re interested, here’s my short review: My review of the pimax 5K+


#74

Now, that particular experience I would attribute to your 60fps video source quantizing much better to the evenly divisible 120Hz refresh rate, for a clean and simple “double flash” or each frame, than to the x1.5 “alternate single- and double flash”, of 90.

I stick stubbornly with what you mentioned about the persistence-of-vision discrete strobe-y laser pointer trails, though. :7


#75

Sweviver was supposed to get an Index has he posted his impressions here yet?


#76

Yeah I was thinking that myself, since my TV also displays videos much smoother when i put my TV at a frequency that’s a whole multiple of the source video. It’s indeed probably the same thing. However I’ve been trying with games too for a while now and in games I also notice the difference, even between 120/144 (although I still need to do blind tests there to confirm my brain isn’t playing placebo-like tricks on me, LOL, but it definitely feels smoother).


#77

Yeah, frame deltas should certainly make it a situational matter, to a great degree: Seeing a landscape slowly crawl by by fractions of a pixel from frame to frame, from a craft thousands of feet up in the air, should look just ok even at 30fps – Looking out the side window of one’s Lotus Esprit, as it howls down the road, with your behind barely clearing the asphalt, however… :7

I guess the “standard” test in general remains: “Does any difference make itself immediately known when going back to the old, after some time with the latest hotness?” :7


#78

Imagine how many problems could be solved with an adjustable depth dial like vive or index, combine that with adjustable tilt and we would be rockin’.

I cant imagine a headset more in need of this than the pimax.

Yesterday while standing in SteamVR Home, I had the DAS on on a weird angle while I was trying to grab something IRL. And i noticed that the Geometric Warping in my peripheral had almost dissapeared. I tested this and for me there was about a 1/2 inch gap between the bottom of the padding and my upper cheeks. (I could fit my index finger between)

the top of the face pad rested just above my eye brows.(which by the way is not as comfortable after a while its as if the weight of the headset is being supported by your eyebrows.

Also the DAS mod is not so great , as you tighten the knob at the back, the bottom part of the facepad tilts closer tonyour face so I couldnt maintain the distortion reducing angle.


#79

Until you realize that your shoe bottoms are now warped and the second you take a step in any direction you lose balance , and fall on your arse. :joy:

Many would go back to the pebble(the Index in this case)


#80

I took a screen shot of this, someone should really sticky this image because its so accurate its scary.

I can confirm. the shape is hugely important but the numbers do not convey this. I tested this myself in elite dangerous. On Rift S i could the view was a circle, and i could see to a certain area to the top but the circle would close in so its not really accurate to say i can see 90 degrees vertical because most of that is cut by the circle. On the pimax not only could i see higher, but it was closer to a rectangle, everything was visible acrosse the entire top of my view.