Some thoughts about resolution, FOV, and comfort after comparing 5K+ and Index

opinion

#81

Agreed like the Vive Pro it’s more of a Side grade/upgrade to Gen1 VR an Optimized First Gen. Much like the final of Crt had with Widescreen.


#82

Yeah Acer is still stringing the possibility like our wait on possible stretch goal release date.

Blacks are better on the 8k vs 5k+. But yes Black could still be blacker. :beers::wink::+1::sparkles:


#83

True there is also a difference between playing video with a “TruMotion like 120hz” effect vs render frames.

With Video have seen TruMotion 120 & 240 look nicer than 60 @ 120 & vs 60 @ 240.


#84

I think at last post his index was reported lost in the mail system.


#85

Have you tried mashing the HMD closer to your face? I find that if I move the headset further away, I see massive distortions.

I’m using the original 14mm face-pad with 1 layer of double-sided Velcro, so that my eyelashes don’t touch the lenses. I have almost no distortions using Normal FOV.


#86

Yeah so ok due the slow progress of Pimax and the convincing user reports about the Index I also ordered the index hmd+controllers.

Looking forward for playing Arizona and Skyrimvr, wasn’t playable with the Pimax and def not going back to Vive, rather play flat games.


#87

The pebble was the limited FOV in my case (and not a specific headset). Just like it was the resolution before that (with the Pro). Technology is going forward and the pebbles go away :slight_smile:

If I decide for some reason to drop the 5k then the next logical choice would be the Vive Pro with wireless. It has the same resolution and FOV, but better colors, blacks and stereo overlap than the Index.


Added; appreciation for the Index fans
After reading a lot of pro-Index posts I can appreciate the uphill battle the Index fans (in the good sense of the word) are fighting - “feelings” against specs. This is problematic because the two foundations of the PC world are “specs” and “bang for buck” and the Index has problems with both. Pimax/VivePro+wireless on one front, Rift on the other.
This is a bit like “I got a1080ti but my PC is too noisy and behaves somewhat strange. Went back to GTX980 and feel much better now”. Even if people do not argue with your decision they will not take it to heart. The obvious question here is - why was the 1080ti not working for you.
So I don’t think this tactic will actually work. Better approach would be to identify some popular games that the Index is obviously the superior headset for (BS, SPT and others) and use that as an attack line. Or maybe the brands - FB and HTC are “tainted”, Valve is an obvious fan favorite. But this will not always work and can backfire.
Anyway, I want to thank the active Index fans for not been “toxic fanboys”. I was really afraid we will see the same flame wars from the general PCVR start to rage within the SteamVR ecosystem and I’m really happy and thankful that it did not happen.


#88

Pimax does not have 200° either. It has 120°, 140° and 160° horizontal FOV, for Small, Normal and Large. Diagonal FOV is even smaller (except Large where it is just a tad bigger, but still ~160°) because of the hidden area mask applied.

You can verify it with my tool: https://github.com/risa2000/hmdq


#89

Thanks for asking.
After an endless loop of problems, my Index arrived last week (jeez…). I still havent done much with it, as Ive just been too busy with daily job and IRL issues to take care of. Im working my *ss off to get things back to normal in life, believe me, I dont want anything else than just be in VR and review stuff and get my channel rolling again… :roll_eyes:

Oh and btw. I tested Index maybe 2 weeks ago at a friend’s (just for a half an hour or so), long before mine arrived. I may sound biased now, I know, but I wasnt overwhelmed in any particular way. Rather the opposite. On the other hand, I never use the Small FOV on Pimax, which is still wider. But thats just me I guess.


#90

I think the main takeaway with the Index is that it grows on you over time. Without sounding biased, it would be interesting to hear your take on it once you’ve fully tested it and that includes messing with the 144hz/120hz and supersampling options in Steam VR across a number of games. I would recommend playing Space Pirate Trainer, Rez Infinite, Vader Immortal at 144hz to get a feel for it.


#91

I know … I only used the official pimax values.

Ok, but … the FOV the user actually sees is well known to depend on how close his eyes are to the lenses. From what distance does your tool go out in the calculation?


#92

From the readme:

Displays the headset geometry as advertised by the OpenVR subsystem to the application.

It’s the actual numbers.


#93

You can read this (https://github.com/risa2000/vr_docs/blob/master/docs/fov_calculation.md) for the details, but in general the tool calculates the “technical FOV” at which the headset operates and at which the application renders the image.

You can see less than what is the technical FOV, if the lenses are blocking the view, or the image is too distorted, but you cannot see more, because more is simply not rendered by the application.

Technical FOV does not depend on how far (or close) your eyes are, or what is your IPD. It is an inherent characteristics of the headset design at which the headset operates and can be compared to other headsets technical FOVs.


#94

So this will return the same value for FOV for a headset “type” regardless of who runs it?
Is there a list with measurements for all (or some) of the available headsets? I understand that it doesn’t represent the " perceivable FOV" but it is still interesting to see what the “hardcoded” upper limits are.
And do we know if somebody has made tests on the performance effects and rendering limitations of Valve’s PP implementation?


#95

Yeah that was my initial reaction too. And it’s true, the index isn’t overwhelming in any particular way. I mean Fov wise the Pimax is kind of overwhelming, it’s just unbeatable and when you try it first, you immediately see that. But after a while you discover all sorts of shortcomings. The Reverb, you try it on and the resolution is overwhelming. But I couldn’t even use it correctly because of the lack of IPD adjustment and I hated the low (vertical) FoV. The Odyssey+, you try it on and the total lack of SDE is just stunning. But then the lack of sharpness is a bummer.

With the index it’s different, there’s nothing that feels extremely impressive when you put it on first time (maybe the audio though, that’s really really nice, definitely best in class). But like @RobCram just noted above, this thing has grown on me over the last few days. I mean the glare is of course a downside, but other than that everything just works really well, it’s really smooth, everything just looks and feels right, the VR world feels more convincing than with other hmd’s and that results in just a very pleasant VR experience, it’s become my favorite HMD now.


#96

The more I read and think about it, the more I’m convinced I am going to end up keeping two headsets. There’s good points about nearly all of them, but it’s the shortcomings and per person factors that determine whether or not a headset is viable for continued use. I would like to use my Pimax with the actual accessories that are supposed to be coming. I already had to buy a base station, knowing full well based on track record I’d be waiting A WHILE for the one i purchased in the pledge. It will also be interesting to see how PiTool continues to mature. Once I get a version that is usable with the GPU bug fixed (which it is, I just cannot use 180) and a few of the annoying UX bugs ironed out it should be a pretty good experience.

The FOV may become a factor but I think that if the Index offers superior visual clarity and good performance at 90+ hz (people have told me that the performance costs seem to be less for a comparable / better image than the 5K+) I will definitely not notice the FOV drop as much. I use Small and that’s for two reasons. First, I get to jam more pixels into the rendered image, and second, because I’m now getting ready for the Index trial.

I backed the Pimax because at the time VR seemed to be going nearly nowhere and I was SICK TO DEATH of the Rift and Oculus as a whole. FOV was not a deciding factor in my decision. It was simply a case of I want a better VR experience and this thing seems to be the only light in the darkness.


#97

Yes. This is exactly the purpose of this app.

This is my intention once I collect more data, hopefully from the locals. I have released the tool only few days ago and then left for some holiday :slight_smile:.

I have the Index geometry from @jojon and already made some visualization to compare it with Pimax, but before I publish it I would like to have at least one other Index data.

Apart from that I have already run it on Pimax5k+, and OG Vive (both I have) and collected data for Rift CV1 and Pimax 8k, from people who helped me testing the tool.


#98

I would also definitely recommend trying a high quality x-rated video at 120 hz, LOL. I’ve just tried some video’s from vrbangers.com, which I think currently host the highest quality vids, put the hmd at 120 (which indeed works better than 144 for vids, due to a whole multiple from 60 hz) and man, it’s just stunning. I figured that no HMD would beat the odyssey+ for porn any time soon, and figured the Index would excel at games but not so much at porn but man, I was wrong. The smoothness of playing the video’s at 120hz, the lack of distortion, the colours, the sharpness, this is really the nr 1 device for both games and porn, which I really didn’t expect.

And after using the index for a while the SDE actually is quite good, I totally don’t see it anymore unless I really look for it. It’s there, sure, but I don’t see it as a downside. In fact if I was allowed to improve 1 aspect of the HMD it would be the FoV. It’s already damn sharp, the glare or SDE don’t bother me too much but you’d wish you could just turn of those goggles, LOL

I really hope Valve doesn’t wait too long for the next improved version with HOPEFULLY higher FoV :slight_smile:


#99

yeah, at this point I think Pimax is like a wine which eill get better with age.

But in the meantime you definetly need a normal headset to quench your thirst.

As an oculus owner who despised the vive, thanks to pimax I find myself 2/3’s into the steam vr ecosystem.

I had to buy a used vive because i wanted basestations and controllers(if you can even call wands controllers because they are arse)
And because the vive wands are arse, and Pimax hasnt delivered swords. I had to splurge on knuckles.

So im just one step away from getting an index headset when they arrive in canada.


#100

Wait too long and it’ll get sour.