Some thoughts about resolution, FOV, and comfort after comparing 5K+ and Index



Not if in a good wine cellar. :wine_glass::wink::beers:


knowing Pimax you would open the cellar, and the bottle would have developed cracks


Only if the cellar is not climate controlled as this seems to be why housings have cracked due to flaws in material (wine spoils in poorly controlled climate). Read recently a fellow here whacked his off a window hard - luckily didn’t fall out the window. Hmd in great shape no cracks.


sounds like you found a vr headset for now

not very likely, i’d expect the next (big) iteration in 2 years, for more fov you will need more resolution and more gpu power, beside solving the optical problems (with eye tracking?) and all this for a price not higher then now (hmd and gpu)
beside selling hmd valve needs to sell games with steam and thats only going to happen with more people in vr, so it has to be affordable
lowering the price might be priority one for valve now (beside finishing these 3 vr games)
i expect them to have already something in the lab (nice patents they have published) but it will take time to make this available for a reasonable price


It surely did spark my interest in VR again, but now the problem is lack of VR content, damn, been searching and searching for a a cool new game to play with high quality visuals but haven’t found anything. Hopefully the new gen VR headsets out there will motivate more people to buy one and thus motivate more studios to write high quality games.


Would not say “as much”, hard to generalize, but there for sure are sweet-spots for each of the features.

As we figured that the jump from previous HMDs FOV to Pimax FOV small view is already very recognizable (even more so the normal view), the jump to high FOV though, does not make that much of a significant difference anymore.

Also, the jump from 90-144 Hz seems gimmicky, especially when we can use this spare performance and benefit from higher SS settings. But 60Hz is for sure a huge difference to 90.

I hope that with time, HMDs may get those features more balanced together.
High FOV setting in Pimax is nice, but it for sure eats performance like candy,
just like (reported) the 144Hz on the Index and does hardly justify the performance loss in most cases.

Concerning movies we are used to 24/25 FPS anyway, so 60fps movies (native or SVD-ed) on a 60Hz screen look already awesome. So really no need for playing movies at 120.

120Hz or even 144Hz gaming on a normal monitor makes sense since most PC-users have overpowered PC for simple 1080p gaming anyway=lots of performance to spare. When I tinkered out of curiosity with the 144Hz panel of a friend, I also found that the sweet-spot was at 90Hz. Noticeable jump from usual 60, not so to 144.

I am very sensitive for refresh rates and I had small expectations that the 90+ Hz of the Index is going to have far more impacting positive feedback.

So I think real 130/140 (with that bigger horizontal) FOV and 90Hz will enable future headsets to go higher res reasonably.


Try skyrim with Mods can look pretty sweet.


Indeed. There is sweet spots for everything. Thr interesting thing though is gen1 vr is essentially pan & scan aspect ratios.

What would be interesting would be ti revisit psvr on a pc running good ss @120hz stable for compare purposes. Maybe if possible to hack upgrade bridge chip.

Interestingly (i will call dead 4 now) StarVR one decreased Reoilution considerably to hit 90hz.

While Xtal has I think 70hz for 2×Qhd


Yes, “stable” may help to compare, as 120 is unlikely super stable on PC.
Still, doubt that it’s a game changer. Ok PSVR knows its headroom performance due to fixed hardware and may easily invest into stuff like that. Seems they try hard to look good on paper.


New panel tec of course may shift those sweet-spots tremendeously, probably due to response time and better ppi utilisation.


The Psvr was reported long ago really nice on a 1080ti pc a couple years back.


This is where it would be interesting to try cascaded displays.


I believe that the push in VR dissemination is based not so much on PC high-end HMDs, but rather on such products as the Quest. This is VR, as the masses want it: no base stations, no PC, no tinkering, no complicated setup, just put it on and get started, and that wireless!


This is the biggest mistake Oculus made with the Quest - a device for nobody basically. (And currently an expensive BeatSaber machine) They should have released a wireless Rift at this stage. It would have answered to all requirements you listed (except the PC) and would have been a great next step. Something like PC powered Quest.

The Quest is a gaming system (as made clear by the joysticks on the controllers) that is targeted at gamers without capable PC or without PlayStation. This is a very small niche. If I person doesn’t have money to upgrade their PC they will definitely not have money for a 500 euro VR console with expensive games.

Been VR ready is not that hard for a PC system now. The basic fact is that 50% of the Steam users do own and use VR ready PC’s. And only 1% of them have VR headsets. It is inexplainable to me that Oculus chose to ignore the people who are already setup and ready to be reached and instead went chasing … not sure what.

“Go” for immersive media and PC-powered wireless “Quest” for gaming would have been the perfect lineup - for Oculus and for VR as a whole. Instead they choose to add more confusion to the already complicated market.


Maybe. I always find it difficult to imagine what the ‘masses’ want. But for me, the Index really is the first VR headset that I’d recommend to people. It’s just a great VR experience, it works without much hassle (apart from mechanical installation of the lighthouses maybe) and it’s VR how I always imagined it would be. The Index really has raised the bar to a level that I’d now consider ‘good enough’.

I always strongly agreed with Palmer when he said “Free isn’t cheap enough” and that the masses wouldn’t use VR headsets even if they’d get them for free. VR just needed to get better first. I do think that the Index has changed that. Then again, like said, it’s always difficult to predict the masses :slight_smile:


PC gaming is dead!!!, :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


Of course only after the Vive Pro that has the same resolution and FOV but superior colors and blacks, 100% stereo overlap and working wireless solution. Or for the “bang for buck” people - the Rift S that has the same base experience for 1/2 the price :slight_smile:
The Index is a bit like the Quest - a headset without a clear target group, carried forward by the brand and marketing power of the corporation that is selling it.


Pimax should release Brainwarp 2.0 with the 8kx if they want to remmain competitive, now that the index is competing with them and has upped the refresh to 120/144


I do own the Vive Pro too (one of the 8 hmd’s I own) and believe me, the Index is much better. I always liked the Vive Pro too though, but the SDE is just a bit too big (it’s not RGB stripe and has a much lower fill factor), it’s not nearly as sharp, it’s lower (perceived) resolution, due not being RGB stripe, it gets hotter, the FoV is not as wide, it doesn’t go above 90 hz which I now do find a very attractive feature of the Index, and the audio is way worse. It just doesn’t feel as immersive. And I’m not even talking about the price that HTC asked at release, that was just crazy.

Really, you should try the Index. And I’m not talking about putting it on in a store or at a friend’s house, because initially you might not be that impressed. I know I wasn’t, my initial comments here on this forum weren’t that positive. But like many said, the Index just keeps growing on you.


SDE vs colors and blacks is indeed a tough dilemma at this stage. I was considering getting the OLED 5k and I would have been OK if it had the SDE of the Pro, but most people said it is worse. But for me personally the level of the SDE in the Pro is an acceptable trade off for the colors and blacks (this does depend on the games one plays). Also as a Vive only user (my previous headsets were OG Vive and a Pro) the incomplete stereo overlap is still bugging me.

the FoV is not as wide

It is. Get the thin VR cover or even better - do thesleeping mask mod and it will be identical.

it doesn’t go above 90 hz

None of the games I currently play can benefit from that given my 1080ti.

And I’m not even talking about the price that HTC asked at release, that was just crazy.

Well, they are not asking it now.

But like many said, the Index just keeps growing on you.

Every headset grows on you if you give it a chance :slight_smile: Humans are an adaptive species.

Added: Better info for the sleeping mask mod here.