The 8K-X concept


#74

Nice, refreshing usage. In this case StarVR or Xtal would be to low in resolution not even speaking of price. You could event get good result with only one 2080/2080TI in low refresh rate below 60hz.

But in this case would you not prefer some lower FOV 4K theather dedicated headsets?


#75

We can already run 8K at 120FPS on Kepler GPU, so performance isn’t the issue. We just need bandwidth at the headset.

FOV is a tradeoff, ideally we’d get 6K over 120 degrees, but 90 degrees is too low. Field of view for us is more important than resolution.


#76

It amazes me as an 8K-X backer with an anaemic Vega 64 Liquid GPU that Pimax would be so generous to loan up to 400 8K-X backers a ‘free’ 5K/8K headset, maybe for years to come. To the point I don’t believe it’s a viable business model.

This is because the wear and tear over 24 months of using their loaned headset would mean even if you sent it back to China, they could only sell them ‘used’ on their store/ebay. In terms of profit, they then couldn’t honour your original 8K-X Kickstarter pledge, because it would have cost them far too much money to loan out up to 400 5k/8K headsets and have them returned, probably worth 50% of what they were worth if sold as new on their store.

This is why I think the loaned 5K/8K headsets for 8K-X backers will perhaps turn into a surprise email in late 2019/2020 saying: ‘‘Hello futurists, you can now keep your 5K/8K headset we loaned you guys and as we’re nice we’ll take 25% off the price of our 2020 $1,000 8K-X model which you have first dibs on in paying for on our store, being you’re a loyal backer’’.

Personally, I think that’ll happen and I’m not saying it’s unfair, just that I think people should be told in advance if this is the realistic outcome to 8K-X backers being ‘loaned’ a 5K/8K headset as a generous favour by Pimax.


#77

Is that part of an official update or guess? I haven’t recieved that update or missed it in the forums.


#78

You need some coffee, my friend.


#79

You’re hilarious helio :smiley:


#80

Never enough lol​:coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee:


#81

This would not be cool at all, and unlikely to happen, I believe.

What might happen, is Pimax dropping the 8K X, and saying we can keep the loan instead. But I believe Pimax will succeed, and us 8K X backers will be laughing all the way to 360 degree porno heaven :laughing:

:smiley:

EDIT: what would be really cool, would be instead of us having to send the loaner back, we get to buy it at a reduced price. I mean, it’s second hand :wink: :smiley:


#82

This I would totally agree with, and to be honest, I’m actually hoping for. :wink:


#83

Just don’t open the box it will still be new in 2 years :wink: To be fair the kickstarter price for the 5K+ or 8K should be applied in this case. I don’t see the usefulness to return to Pimax those loaners after that much time


#84

all depends on what they expect to be able to get for a refurbished loaner. if it’s less than the logistics of shipping and refurbishing + whatever they can get you to pay it would make sense to let you buy it.


#85

The point is why should 8K-X backer get now the 5K+ or the 8K for less the other 5000 backers? But it was said half joking so yes maybe in 2 years :wink:


#86

Oh, the whole second hand thing? no I would absolutely expect pimax to ask either the kickstarter price or the full price for those of us who may want to buy the loaner after all. But they’ll also look at where they can make the most.


#87

None of your points really concern me at all, to be honest. It’s not like we’re “holding out” considering we’re getting loaner units. The 8K is basically a non-starter due to the display type and hardware up-scaling nonsense.

As for GPU hardware, I never understood this complaint. Not every game is ultra-demanding, and I personally don’t actually have any motion sickness due to frame drops or anything else in VR. My computer runs Sairento fine at enough supersampling to be higher pixelcount than the 8K-X has at a reasonable framerate as-is, so why would I worry? Not to mention eventually new GPUs will come out, it’s not like the 2080ti is the end of the road, eventually we’ll get a 3080ti, a 4080ti, and so forth, in the future that will be able to power the headset better. Even if it doesn’t run at an acceptable framerate for a given game, you can still just undersample to get it to run and you still come out ahead of a lower res headset. In regards to SLI, it’s not even a thought in my mind with how awful it’s support/performance has historically been.

The lens distortion thing has always been somewhat amusing to me, because it’s something I’ve been accustomed to through having to wear glasses in my day-to-day life, and isn’t really an issue for me unlike normie-vision folks having to adjust to optical oddities from lenses.

The only thing that concerned me was the 8K-X using the wonky 8K panels, but in the Thanksgiving AMA thread, the Pimax team talked about how they’re still looking into what panels to use for the 8K-X anyway, which would imply it’s not going to be the same.


#88

Truth the 8k panels were known from the first Tested Review at the start of the kickstarter & folks had no real complaints on the v2 to v5. Only after all the over zoomed photos.

The upscaling while not as good as Native res works fine; just don’t have the power in gpu to push & these are not the same rainbow-rgb panel type like the p4k. Which upscaled reallt nice.

New panels & new bridge chips make sense as they will be available.


#89

Yeah but at the start of the kickstarter, we had no idea that the 5k+ was going to be a thing, or what it looked like, there were no comparisons to draw.

I’m trying to not saying the 8K is bad, by the 8K being a non-starter, I more meant for myself, and in comparison to the 8K-X.I just don’t like it as much as a traditional panel, nor do I like the idea of having to upscale the image via a chip as it’s imperfect, especially at resolutions that are not geometrically doubled. That’s why I backed the 8K-X, afterall – I wanted the best. From all of the photos I’ve seen, ultra-macro or zoomed out lens shots, I do prefer the 5k+. I’m hoping that the 8K-X turns out better than the 8K, but we’ll see. In the end, the 5K+ and 8K are both very good products compared to what’s available (Especially compared to my first gen vive, blugh), and if I had one infront of me, I’m sure i’d be ecstatic either way. But given that a choice exists and there’s not much to talk about in the interim, there’s going to be a lot of fawning over what’s better; even if it’s only slightly.


#90

Well the problem with the macro shots as SweViver has said doesn’t really give accurate assessment of what ypu see. As of recent msny are starting to see the 8k is bettervthan what they have been led to believe.

Granted Native Res is better for graphic editing & things that need benefit from 1:1 pixel representative.

What we need to see how good these panels can be is to create a special p4k with a single panel upscsled from 1440p with an option to skip scaler so panel can be driven fully with scaler & without at max settings.


#91

Mind you Sweviver did go out and defend the 8K as being not a complete failure when compared to the 5K+.

But even if provide roughly the same image quality, doesn’t the 5K+ do so at 30% less GPU load ?

I forgot to query the guys in Gouda whether the SS & resolution settings were both the same for both PC’s or if they ran both to the max, meaning that the 5K+ should have shown a better picture due to demanding less from the GPU, i.e. allowing for higher graphics quality settings.


#92

Not in my experience. Fresco has tested 8k on his 980ti rig & ludx has tested tge 8k on a 1060 6g with great results.

In my experience didn’t find leap & bounds requiring juicing up the 8k settings to be comparable to 5k+ quality. Yes cranking up settings will make the 8k sharper but imho the 5k+ is too sharp. The 8k could use some sharpness to decrease softness. But hardly nit as bad as the macro shots led fokks to believe.

To me the 5k+ lack of vertical res makes it somewhat blocky where you can also see horizontal lines stacked in large white lettering. & as shown in the Tail light pick


closed #93