The psychological effect of the SDE pattern. The reason why I change my mind about the 5K+


#1

Hello everybody!!

I was a declared defender of the Pimax 8K due to the SDE. But know… Is possible I will change my mind to the 5K+.

The reason is Gestalt. Gestalt psychology. In special, the “emergence”. The capacity of the brain to see a big numbers of “things” as a simple whole.

When I use PSVR or Go… I don’t see SDE in the way that I see individual pixels. Because I’m used to see horizontal and vertical lines in my life. Is more usual. But diagonal… for me is strange. Like a fly vision.

In diagonal, like Odyssey, Vive, 8K… I see individual pixels. In Go, PSVR, 5K+… I see lines. Like old CRT monitors. My mind is used to it.

Then… for me… that’s the reason that after weeks thinking about it… I notice that is possible that 8K will have “less SDE”. But for my mind, I could ignore the horizontal pattern of the 5K+ SDE.

I explain all of it, because it is possible that somebody thinks like me :slight_smile: and has Gestalt inside his mind hahah.

Some pictures about all of this.


#2

I’m in the same boat, I’m playing mostly with Odyssey and Go, and the rift and the most acceptable sde for me is the one on the Go just because of that, everything looks more logical and natural to me, on the others it is a mess, I,d love a real comparison between the Go and the two Pimax headsets, @mixedrealityTV you have all three headsets, could you do a sde comparison between them? thank you


#3

It all makes sense for elements that have strict orientation to “horizontal perception” but not for perspective scene.

Yes, it also works in VR for screen space elements, like GUI, in other cases the “horizontal harmony” is disturbed by tilting your head. In current lowres VR we trying to orient the texts horizontally for comfy reading, I hope it will not so nessesary for P8.

Oh, my God! Looks like dogs have “diagonal perception”. o_O


#4

I got your point, but I don’t talk about the alignment of the pixel pattern with the virtual elements, to achieve more “sharpness”. In other post there are people talking about that.

Here is more about the alignment of the eyes directly with this pattern, and the RGB alignment between pixel, to create a whole line of pixel, and a perception of “something” familiar, like CRT alignment, or the pixel alignment in monitors, and the common disposition of pixels in a digital image.

It is more about to feel comfortable with it directly.

For instance, about the joke of the dogs, if they tilt 45 degrees their head, then the HMD turn too, then the pattern is always in diamond with their eyes. I don’t know if dogs love or hate diamond patterns or if they are used to it… the thing is… wtf… this dogs have an P8K and I don’t have one??


#5

Yes, you’re right. There is a trick for boosting the image detail and hiding some low-poly and/or low-pixel issues:
Just add the overlay pattern with interlaced effect! And it looks even stylish!

Check this out… this is a part of the screen of my Android game with those overlay option and yes, I prefer the overlay version instead of clear.

But… I’m not sure for current VR immersion that horizontal pattern + sharpeness is better than clear but a bit blurry view . So, I’m still on 8K side. :slight_smile:


#6

Horizontal + bit blurry is better because it erase the SDE forever :). The best mix hehe.

But bit blurry with a big amount of pixels and without upscale (blurry not for the signal. Blurry for the way you perceive the individuals and physical pixels). I have my faith in the 8Kx or 8K+ comercial with RGB pattern in the future.


#7

And so beautiful this effect!!


#8

There is one question for Pimax devs: Did you try a sort of diffuse filter like Sony did in their PSVR for SDE hiding?


#9

I agree and I intend to pre order the 5k plus. I was not into vr last year and did not now about Primax. Funny thing though, out of you pictures of the plane controls… although the 5k is the sharpest pic, I prefer the Samsung due to the deep colors. I hope the Primax is not that colorless in real view, it almost looks white washed


#10

It mostly depend on what games you (I anyways, not everyone) are playing…
Actually I can see it in the sky in sims (DCS) but can quickly forget it and/or cant focus on it on fps (Pavlov) and in small/funny games (Beat Saber).
When you have to look something that is far away, something small (enemies in sky, far objets on track while driving…etc), sde jump in, otherwise it dont.
But Iam talking about the 4k here.
And according to what some people says, the 4k and 8k have similar, 5k is bigger sde, so Iam glad I went for the 8k cause I would have troubles with a bigger sde of what Iam used on the 4k.


#11

The big advantage of the 5k+ is that it also almost no SDE horizontally because colours of the same colour are right next to each other where as with the 8k+ it always has it in both directions.


#12

Yeah! It was something I didn’t notice when I think in select the 8K. Then, trying Oculus Go, I figured out this.


#13

Diagonal… I raise you upside down. :wink:


#14

Yeah maybe.

But the brain is very good at getting used to anything you throw at it, within a very short time.

We really are looking into this far more deeply than we should as I’ve said many times. Diagonal, horizontal, slightly more pixels, slightly less, slightly blurrier slightly sharper, slightly more blacks better colour etc etc. It all doesn’t matter. All these things will get normalised by the brain within a very quick timeframe. Unless we spend every gaming session doing quick AB testing NONE of these things will matter.

What really matters are the following:

  1. FOV - both the 8K and 5K+ have this so that cool
  2. closeup legibility of numbers in dials eg in Sims or other games where distant small text reading is required - there is NO amount of getting used to this. Either you can read it or you can’t. In the 5K+ you can in the 8K you can’t. Simple as that. Now you may get used to the fact that you can’t read dials and it may not bother you as much over time but that’s very different to saying that brain gets used to it. It doesn’t. If you can’t read something you can’t read it. The brain won’t magically get used to it and read it with some magic acuity it never had before.
  3. Performance: for the same level of sharpness (if we ignore the getting used to sharpness point) the 5K+ will perform much better. Yes you may get used to lower framerates but you may not and you actually may find some games unplayable due to nausea or you will have to lower settings or FOV.

So in summary SDE you will get used to whatever you choose but performance and legibility you won’t. So to sacrifice performance and legibility for the sake of SDE is unwise. For this reason I’m going for the 5K+ : it’s flaws won’t matter in time but the 8Ks will keep haunting.


#15

Well. I was a defender of the 8K due to the SDE. For me, in all my HMDs, my two problems are SDE and FOV.

8K and 5K+ win in FOV. But, at first I thought that for SDE the best option for me was 8K. You now, slightly SDE. But then I thought… you can have slightly SDE and see it every time, because it has an uncommon shape, or… you can see some SDE but ignore it. Something that I feel with PSVR and Oculus Go (RGB like 5K+).

At the end… I switch my mind to the 5K+.

But… I want a 8K+ heheh


#16

I have to agree with you 100% about being able to tolerate different pixel patterns regardless of the resolution. I can handle the PSVR (and its only 1080p, it really looks good for such low resolution) to an extent but the Odyssey with better resolution and the pentile display is hard for me to view. I like the Pimax 4K pattern even though its zig zag, and even though its zig zag its still doesn’t bother me too much. I really think I will unfortunately HAVE to purchase both the 8K and 5K+ to make a decision on which one will be best for my viewing :frowning: And Im actually looking forward to see which one I will like best. We all have read numerous reviews on a HMD we wanted to purchase, and after all the rave reviews, we purchase it and then don’t like it for whatever reason. It all comes down to what looks best for YOU.


#17

When people are able to see it for themselves and compare both headsets, then they tend to the 8K. #berlinmeetup
Just saying :wink:


#18

Hi there! I remember how much you preferred the 8k :wink: But you only looked at it for a couple of hours and probably your perception was also influenced by the fact that you expected less SDE for the 8k! :wink:

I have tried both headsets with so many games by now and I also prefer the horizontal subpixel structure of the 5k+.


#19

Yes Sebastian. At first I did not agree with you, and think that is imposible that 5K+ could be my option.

Then , trying Oculus Go and PSVR I finally change my point of view about it, and see that for me certainly the 5K+ is a better option :slight_smile:


#20

First impression it not always the last impression, only a in house comparison with more than 2 hours can by interpreted has a real preference toward one or the other headsets.

when shopping for a new TV you will see all these nice TV sets with overblown colors in demo mode. But once at home a calibrated TV set is preferable. Appreciation needs time which the people in Berlin didn’t have

The blurring effect of the 8K can be really nice on some scene. I have a special special screen protector on my IPAD PRO to be able to write more easily this give a special pastel look to my screen and reduce “clarity”. But sometime I would prefer more “clarity”