That’s a possibility, but it would require twice the receiver chips as well as some sort of muxes to permit the alternate sources for one panel. It avoids all the quality compromises, keeps the extra weight and cost of the second input, and ensures the delay to next year. I’d be OK with that too.
Thanks @LoneTech for all the background infos! Didn’t know that the current DP receiver doesn’t even support a single UHD@90 Hz signal.
Did some search to find out in how far “visually lossless” compression of DSC translates to reality.
Found this: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312120807_Motion-based_verification_of_visually_lossless_display_stream_compression_for_HDR_imagery
"Regarding the overall quality of DSC, it appears that it can be visually lossless in a great deal of HDR content, especially for natural imagery. Some challenge images designed to stress features in the codec reveal artifacts when tested with the metholodigies used in this study. The DSC codec has proven itself to be effective at compression in video playback. Artifacts introduced with video sequences containing local motion are far less visible than in the methods based on one frame, and in all but a few cases meet the visually lossless critierion. "
Awesome stuff. Thanks for the read.
I had a base idea or that. But know you have a stronger understanding of display tech than I.
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[quote=“NoamLoop, post:15, topic:8070”]Why is the hardware upscaler so much better than GPU-side upscaling? How much additional overhead would upscaling really impose on the GPU? (additional to wrapping and everything that the GPU does anyhow) Or is it just/mainly about the additional cable?
It’s not an GPU overhead issue. The hardware scaler is REQUIRED, otherwise you’d need 2 cables for the 8K. (If the GPU does the scaling, the full signal must be sent to the headset.) 1 DisplayPort connector/cable cannot carry 2x4K @ 90Hz. Cables are expensive. The 10 meter (33 foot) cable for the Pimax is $70 last time I looked. Needing to buy 2 would be unpopular.
Also, DSC is not currently viable, since nVidia doesn’t support it on the GTX 1080 Ti and earlier cards. It might be available on the 2080, but I haven’t heard anything on it.
You are probably right. Was going to write “would be interesting how many people would pay 100-200 $ more to get a second cable, second DP chip and GPU scaling instead of hardware scaling - with much better scalability and many interesting options - like e.g. gradually more/less GPU-intensive 110/140/170/200° high ppd modes etc, so you can chose between high ppd or high fov nowadays and get both in the future”.
Even with the disadvantages of the current generation (80 Hz, no DSC, two cables) it would imho be the more interesting device.
But then: People had this option at the Kickstarter campaign and deliberately chose the 8k. So it is presumably the thing most prefer.
And yes - a 2019 8k X with still two cables but 90+ Hz, optionally one cable via DSC, eye tracking already included/available, possibly further refined lenses and perhaps even a better display would indeed be a (potentially huge) step up to what would be possible here and now - with better GPUs available to drive it.
As long as the multi billion dollar companies still wait with similar offerings… (they might withhold in 2019, but as soon as GPUs able to drive such hardware in native (+ appropriate supersampling) resolution becomes mainstream they will most likely jump on the train).
It was an advertised feature for the 10 series, just as multi view rendering was. Is this another feature that turned out to be broken after purchase?
Also, without DSC or HBR3 you’re not getting 4K at 90Hz; HBR2 simply doesn’t have enough bitrate, so it’s not just the scaler limiting this.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3187336/displays/more-high-end-gpus-are-now-compatible-with-dells-8k-monitor.html is about a monitor (actual 8K, unlike Pimax 8K) that requires DSC; it was demonstrated with a 1080 graphics card. So DSC does work on the 10 family, which is a bit of a relief. The manual doesn’t mention DSC but does specify driver versions and DP 1.4. It’s possible the article (which seems confused about some things) is mistaken about DSC and that the particular demand was tile support.
According to Anandtech the 10 series is DP 1.4 capable but not certified for it - so they presumably cannot advertize with that feature.
Ah, that explains it. I don’t own a 10xx GPU, so all I’ve read are the ads and reviews. It might be that there might be some sort of issue, which prevented it from being certified.
Thanks for the info!
I am looking at $900 if anyone interested.
I think upscaler can be done on computer side.
At last run on none direct mode. It can be fix.I think.(maybe can enhance with an additional filter).
It’s canadian dolar ? How munch in Euro currency?
But it’s still a Gamble, the 8K was a Gamble, the 8KX a bigger one but if your waiting using a 8K lend by Pimax you’re in a more comfortable situation.
The problem I see with the 8KX is the time Pimax has to spend on it, they have a full plate of things to do for the majority of Backers, building 6000 units, finishing the controller, light houses, eyes tracking, and after that maybe a new and better iteration of the 8K.
But like I said if Pimax lend a 8K to all 400 8Kx backer the worst thing that can append is losing 150-200 US dollars.
If Pimax 8K-X has ANX7538 and in the future Pimax 8K mk2 (retail) Has ANX7538 too then
Is Pimax 8K-X a beta version of Pimax 8K mk2 or do you think Pimax 8K mk2 is always a Pimax 5K with the upscaling to 8K ?
If Pimax 8K mk2 is a 5K with the upscaling to 8K (for less demanding graphic cards) why is better with ANX7538 ?
The 8k-X will still require 2 bridge chips
i forget it but Bakers believe that 8K-X has 2 bridge chip and they Know it has two cables.
I don’t want anything could blunt the visual. So two cables is OK for me and i don’t like compression otherwise there is 8K .
Then why we need to wait ANX7538 ?
Sure for the scaler. I would like the chance to use my 8K-X as 8K if my new PC will be too slow for 8K-X
What are the other reasons ?
ps ok @LoneTech 7538 could remove the scaler from 8K.
Well, if Pimax gets the circuit layout correct, a second revision of the 5K and 8K could use the same pcb as the 8K X. Latter would use an additional board and be connected the first one. All would feature an ANX7538. The 5K just would not use the scaling feature in comparison to the 8K, which could ran at higher frequencies. The 8K X would behave exactly like an 8K if just one cable is connected. If the second cable is connected too, a multiplexer would change how the signal to the second screen is routed and the scaling of the ANX7538 would be disabled.
This would lead to just one pcb design instead of three, at the cost of a multiplexer. Also it would provide higher frequencies for the 8K and the possiblity to use only one input for the 8K X to achieve better compatiblity with wireless solutions designed for the 8K.
I think this would be a great option, since I’ve already proposed it elsewhere in this forum.
I always wanted this design. Its a pitty now the 8k will be rushed out with no advantage. So much lost potential. Dual inuts with a multiplexer is the way to go. Mass produce only one model
Its just the way things shook out and try too keep in mind this project is already going to be 10 months overdue. At some point they have to set their project free