Version 3 prototype review

lying about the 90hz doesnt fill me with confidence. I’m not sure if its a deal breaker or not. i still have time to cancel my 8k headset

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It sounds like they are making good progress. 75hz doesn’t scare me that much because literately hundreds of people play Gear VR (60hz low persistence,) and don’t have issues. 90hz is mostly for those who get sim sickness. Pimax has to fix it, but its not the end of the world.

That said, @anon23564932 you should really tell the team that not being up front about this 75hz issue, and not being up front at the beginning (before Kick starter began,) about the native input resolution being 1440p per eye upscaling to 4k was not a smart decision.

Yesterday, in bigscreen, I had to explain to several people that this headset would run on a 1070, in spite of their disbelief. They wouldn’t believe me because they said, “How can you run 4k per eye with today’s hardware? Its not possible” whereupon I had to explain to them the actual specs of your device, IE “Its native 5k panoramic upscaled to 8k panoramic.”

Unfortunately, you guys are having a situation where your marketing 8k is actually getting you in trouble. This is because its inadvertently not clear to people what the device actually needs to run. If you would like, I can try and help make some suggestions to improve the ads?

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Thank you @evertec for finally technical review. It has answered some of the questions I have indirectly and later directly asked to Pimax and which they avoided to answer.

  • which supersampling was used in demos ==> none
  • what was the refresh rate used in the demos ==> 75 Hz

This finally makes sense since I was pulling my hair over the simple math I did which told me that what Pimax claimed could not work.

Coming to your review:

  • Do you know at which resolution the demos was rendered? I guess if they do not use the full display size they could render smaller sizes. I am talking the scene rendering before pre warp transformation.

  • Do you know which subpixel arrangement use the displays in 8K?

  • Has Pimax indicated if the problem with 90 Hz refresh was related to panel logic or to the upscaler?

Just one note to supersampling. No supersampling should manifest as aliasing progressive from the centre of view to the edges as the geometry loses precision due to lens warp. Did you observe something like that?

I would not call that a lie, it’s a feature not yet implemented, we are talking about a prototype, who said that the headset was ready?

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@evertec Can you tell more about FOV in Elite ? Especially cokpit HUD ? Do you had WOW effect ? :slight_smile:

Totally agree. This isn’t the first time they have lied or misled backers. I had already reduced my pledge from a full 8K kit down to just the headset and unless they can offer reassurance that the 90hz is going to be met. I may just pull out and buy a Samsung Odyssey instead.

I play a lot of Sims, so the refresh rate is important to me the Odyssey seems to have a better display than my current Rift and it was only the FOV that was pushing me towards the 8K. All those stretch goals mean nothing if they cant get a decent headset out.

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They have been telling people at all the demos it was 90 hz, some reviewers already said they found that hard to believe. And initially the ceo claimed here again it was 90 hz. I had hoped pimax would have learned from the 4k be debacle that lying is not a good strategy, the community will always find out

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Thanks for the detailed impressions! The 75hz issue is a big deal and I am sure they are working hard to resolve it, but my concern is that it will simply not be possible to fix it due to the actual limitations of the chip, regardless of what the chip’s spec sheet says. I will probably still keep my pledge for the headset only because the other benefits still sound great and one thing I love to do is watch 3d movies and this should make that much more enjoyable even at 75 hz. I do really hope they can resolve that issue though. I also wonder if the brute force of a Volta card would be able to push the framerates up next year. I currently have a 1080ti but would have no problem selling it and upgrading if there is a big jump in gpu power.

Do you know which subpixel arrangement use the displays in 8K?

They claim its RGB stripe, but a review done yesterday had pictures posted which to me suggest a pentile arrangement.

“I would not call that a lie, it’s a feature not yet implemented, we are talking about a prototype, who said that the headset was ready?”

What would you call it then? They said it would run at 90hz, they even state that on their kick starter page. They avoided answering the question until pushed and then finally come clean that its only achieving 75hz. Its been mentioned, they did the same with native resolution.

They dont come across as an honest bunch and if they had been up front about it from the beginning and said it was a problem, but they would guarantee to fix it before shipping. I would have more respect for them.

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im honestly wondering if the chipset issue will force them to make the default an 8K X like 2 chip arrangement.

They say on KS than v3 would be running at 90?

Can you explain more what game get refresh rate at 75 Hz, it happen with all game or only some high spec game?

Unfortunately, without any position to the contrary on the part of Pimax, this lie now discovered about the refresh rate will make me really abandon my pledge and stick with the sansung odyssey.

Was Fruit ninja running at 90 in your opinion?

If it’s related to GPU performance I don’t see what they can do about it.
At least give us an undersampling option in Piplay and make sure that your upscaler is working with any input.

It’s hard to tell if they’ve been intentionally misleading or if it’s just the language barrier. I had to ask questions multiple times in multiple different ways in order for them to even understand what I was asking. They really need someone on the team that can speak English better. I’d offer myself but I don’t speak Chinese so not sure how much it would help.

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I have a rift and have already backed the kickstarter and will be keeping my pledge. I figure that even if they don’t end up solving all the issues worst case I can sell it to someone who wants it for bigscreen or something if I don’t like it enough over the oculus. As for elite dangerous in particular, it’s hard to tell without adding some supersampling because the jaggies were bothering me a bit even though the clarity was better

The demos were rendered at 5120x1440. I don’t know about the subpixel arrangement but the ceo gave me his email so I’ll ask him. I don’t know exactly where the 90hz problem was, it was hard to get a clear answer due to the language barrier.

Its pretty clear they DID NOT WANT to be transparent about the specific issue with 75hz since the youtube-reviewer who they sent V2 to test was forbidden to show the refresh-rate page in steamVR settings.

I really hate companies being dishonest, maybe its a cultural thing that asian market is more ok with miss-information but here in sweden at least if you are a serious company you wont lie about your product, in fact you can be prosecuted if you market something that is sold with false advertising.
I´m also quite curious about wheather some youtube-reviews are also getting paid for lying since the gap is so increadibly huge between the almost evangelical reviews some state and the more balanced/critical such as yours evertec.

If Pimax representatives would issue a statement that they are sorry they were not clear and will try in the future to be as transparent as humanly possible maybe they could repare the trust-damage done

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That is a good question. Perhaps if the 75 Hz issue cannot be solved it would be best to drop the single cable 8k approach, add the scalers to the dual cable 8k X and thus have a single product that can do 1440p@90 Hz (via two DP cables) and as a bonus run with up to 2x native 4k resolution (probably with only 75 Hz then though?).

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